Transcript for #152 – Dan Gable: Olympic Wrestling, Mental Toughness & the Making of Champions

your persistent I love that because you've been trying to get me on this podcast for a long time and until I saw you on another podcast and you said you were Russian did I call you back that was over because Russia to me you know is leading the world in wrestling almost every year

Well, it's MIT. It's science. It's science. Yeah. And they, they really study this sport. They're really good technically. They're really, really good in strategy. They don't really push like the real toughness. They don't push like conditioning. Right. And so Americans, we need what they have. Russians need will we have and if we need when you get to two together and for me why could be the Russians is because I went there way a little bit but I kept my toughness but you're known you're you're known for your toughness but I wasn't known for my art I wasn't known for my science so when did you become a bit of an artist it took a loss I was already an artist just because I won a hundred and eighty one straight men and seven years and not just winning but you know kind of Punishen people yes, and from from that point of view. Yeah, I might have been pretty good, but I had a long ways to go yet and I didn't really realize that or I should have I should say I didn't really know how to get it out of me until I had a loss and then I realized I got a buckled down learn some of that science become more of an artist.

You got to study the best in the world. I think Dave Schulz was our guy in America that probably showed us that being artistic. You needed that. And he studied it. He went over there as a high schooler and Russell and some major tournaments over there and he saw their ways he used that Russian science and then he was already an American and he saw what how I trained athletes he saw what I did in the Olympics saw what other people how we held up and he applied that as well but I'd have to say he more the artistic type he was more of a Russian than an American when it came to wrestling

I think the common thread is that they all had one of those two avenues that we talked already. And because we intertwined them. So in a Russian wrestling room, they got the same people. Most of the time in an American wrestling room, we had the same people. But when I was out recruiting at first, I recruited just attitude. But I needed more than that. I needed some genetics in that wrestling room. To actually, that hard work people, you know, they could look and see, wow. That execution, that's unbelievable. But yet, I can beat that guy after the first minute.

I think your pop and your ability to move timing and timing and your quickness and your strength. The Russians, they usually picked out the people that can go into that sport. That was the old fashioned sport school. But it's mostly like when you see you walk into a Russian Russian room, you see him hitting skills, techniques. You know, you don't see him banging against each other that much. But then when practice is over, you might not see a bunch of sprints. You might see him walk over to the up. the ropes and they drop down from the ceiling and they'll jump up and climb a rope and then they come down and then they don't jump right back on they have three or four other guys go and then they jump back on whereas I probably made my guys climb them get right back down climb on right back again but I also realized that I had a mix of that.

First of all, prove that you were know what you were doing in terms of technique or in terms of everything everything they just you had to be the first guy there in the last guy to leave and you had to be the most dedicated guy even though they were the ones that's trying to win the championships you had to prove that you were gonna work just as hard as they were as a coach and what does that look like what so you can see it when you you know when you see it Well, you're there ahead of them and you're there after they leave. You know, it's that simple. I'm picking up after them and you're analyzing them. You know, you are work them. You are work them and you all think them. And so, you know, use that type of strategy and over time when you prove it works because some of my kids that were the best kids in the world really Shouldn't have been a wrestler. I mean, they weren't very coordinated. Yeah. But they work so hard to develop themselves.

If you're not, you can't push kids to their limit. And even when you push them to their limit, that's not their limit. Because their limits above and beyond that. I mean, yeah, coaches sometimes accidentally don't, they lose kids. Yeah. Because of the heat, because of hard work and all that. And you've got to, you've got to know where to win the back off. got to read your athletes and by that I mean you got to know them pretty well you know everyone's while you make a little bit of a mistake but if you don't react right on that mistake before it gets too far then it's going to be a casualty and I don't mean somebody dying necessarily but maybe something that could turn them off or maybe something that could run them away or maybe something that Wow, that was close. I maybe shouldn't have pushed him that far. So you really have to be very educated. And it's not just what you know is what you know about them. And I'm not talking about the team. I'm talking about each guy individuals.

You're the first one there and you're the last one to leave and you set in the environment with them. You're there for the morning for practice sometimes. You're there in the afternoon for two or three hours. After practice, you might have a hot room or you might have a sauna or a steam or a whirlpool and you get in there with them and you listen. You're not just feeding out information. You do that, but you're taking in a lot of that, too. And I'm telling you, when you get in an atmosphere that they're relaxed and they feel comfortable, it's like a massage. And that's after practice in one of those areas that people are around you, you learn a lot. I mean, you got a lot to learn as a coach. And when you get in that atmosphere, when all of a sudden you feel like very comfortable, words start flowing. And when those words flow, You take them in as a coach and there's something probably going to be said that you can do an act upon that's going to help a certain situations. I've saved a couple kids lives for sure that we're on the brink. You know, sometimes performance is such a high level, you know, high level atmosphere. that life and death is actually involved. And I don't mean pushing a kid to where he just dies. But I mean he might feel himself as a failure. And he may go home and take his own life.

Yeah, again, you like that word suffering, which is okay.

No, no, no, no, no, keep it because it fits right in where I want. Yeah. I have to turn that suffering around. to where he makes him feels good about himself. Our better does not reveal perfect because he did lose. But you have to actually get him to realize that, yeah, he's still unique compared to the walk of the earth. He was unbelievably unique, right at the top, just a little bit short of. But because it was You know, he felt the suffering. You now have to go about and change that and put it into good will, some way. And because you really have a lot of good will, you can do a lot of good will. And so, and it's not easy. It took him probably years, years of tattooing. years of covering the tattoos. And, you know, he told me moved to California, because he was here for a couple years after his wrestling was done, because he had a good job around here. And he was, well, I thought he was doing a good job, but he just, he said, I had to escape, you know, it's the same as the conversely tattoo. He had a wrestling terminology, I have to get, I hate to say this. I hate to say this. I go, where are you going? He's I'm going to go to California. And I go, is there a reason why you're going to California? He says, that's where everybody goes to hide. But I said, I think you're wrong there, but you know, I think you what will determine your life will be what you do for no one, you know, and if you can, and it's actually turned it around.

Exactly. And he went someplace that he thought he could fit into. And I think he did. And I think he's got a good job and he's helping people. He covered that tattoo with feathers. Another tattoo.

Suffering and overcoming. Yeah, and he's not done yet. He's not done yet. No, he's not done. He's got a lot more to do.

Well, the impossible is possible. It's just that simple. Time changes things. I mean, I mean, if you looked at what where the mile time is right now compared to that four minute mile, which when it was broke by a couple of tents or three or four tents, it's now broke by another 20 seconds.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean by tons of people. And it's pretty much in the common knowledge that you got to run a four minute mile, if you're going to go somewhere now or below, if you're going to win events at major level, you got to be able to do that. And so you can take that and you can look at what in time history has as its record performance. and you can realize that that record performance is going to change. And they don't take into all the factors of knowledge. They don't take in all the factors of better shoes. They don't take in all the factors of better understanding and nutrition. I mean, it's like me as an athlete. I went to practice every day in high school for at least my sophomore and my junior and part of my senior year and all of a sudden a new rule came up. I said, the rule said before that said, at least the most of the coaches, we don't want you drinking water or practice. And okay, why? Because you had to toughen you up. That's a weakness, water. And so we would go through practice. I mean, and you're sweating. And then you're sweating so much that you're almost out of sweat. Yeah. And so you're mostly at the end of practice, you're not even wrestling. Excuse me. You're setting against the wall because you're tired. So then all of a sudden, they say, okay, drink water during practice, drink greater aid during practice. And all of a sudden, at the end of practice, we're still out there competing. And so I look at my career for two and a half years where I and the junior high, too, So I got another three years where I didn't really wasn't able to push as good as I could because I just was probably under under hydrated.

Well, I always Visualized me being the best you believed it in the very forever forever. Yeah, I was because I was I don't know if you call it a dreamer or somebody that I was just involved with competitive sports at the YMCA from age five Did you tell people that dream that you're gonna be Olympic champion one day?

I think they knew and the only reason why they knew because there was something a little different about this guy He was, uh, he's not gonna stop. Well, he was out in the yard. Yeah. And he was swinging baseball bats. Yeah. You know, it's six, it's seven and eight and nine and ten. And he was swinging baseball bats. So much right handed and so much left hand with nobody even there throwing the ball. Yeah. That all of a sudden when they walked by and all of a sudden, the grass was down to dirt on both sides. Yeah. So it's like they saw me out in the yard. playing by myself sports or you know we you know or you get the neighborhood kids you play a lot but if they weren't there you know if you walk in my front room I was hiking a ball like I was the quarterback and I was running not and running through the through the furniture you know that type stuff so you know who saw this guy mostly was probably the parents and the coaches at the YMCA level the junior high level they saw this guy come first and end up last but I wasn't that great I wasn't the fastest guy at that time and I wasn't the strongest guy you know actually before I went to the Olympics when they tested me they tested everybody and I probably came back with one of the highest scores but it was it was not like the highest person on this and this and that I was all high across the board straight across the board high on every one of them but there was always people that were higher than genetics but then they would go down yeah then they would test on something else and go back up mine stayed high all across the board and so I you know I really didn't have too many flaws but I didn't have any things that also said that you were going to be Unscored upon the Olympic Games.

Yeah, first of all, it was quite a day because we weighed in every day at that time. And that, yeah, we weighed in two hours before the start of the competition. And so that is mean that you wait in two hours for your Russell because you didn't know whether you're gonna wrestle right away or later on. In fact, in that day, I don't think I wrestled until later on in the evening. So had all day to recover, but I didn't really need it anyway because you know, it wasn't really pulling a whole lot of weight, but just it's just interesting.

Yeah, I know I was gonna win. But in reality, I'm not, I didn't know it from a cocky point of view. I only know it because for the last one, three and a half years, I had been going to practice. And I've been winning every practice. You felt good. And I hardly ever lose a takedown. And if I lost this, if I somebody scored on me, It was like, when I went to bed, I couldn't sleep until I figured it out. Or if I didn't figure it out, I would fall asleep. And I would be, well, I would wake up with the answer of what I needed, why I got scored upon.

Timing very difficult. But yes, somebody could. Because they were going for one move. All I wanted was one move. Whereas, you know, if you can arrest somebody in the whole practice or half a practice for at least 10, 15 minutes. And they were maybe going to score if they could work it in their mind. But they knew that was going to be their victory.

It's kind of like what we were saying before. If something happened and somebody scored on me in a certain way, I would go over that situation over that situation, over again, and I would come up with an answer. And then I would actually test it. Maybe I wouldn't go right back the next day, because I didn't want the guy to, you know, do not have some, I don't want him to think that I was thinking about it all night, I didn't tell him. But maybe three days later, when Russell again, I actually had a figure out because it was able to. or if even if I was in on a take as an offensive move and I got stopped and didn't score, you know, I had to go back and filter that. But it wasn't something that usually I couldn't solve. I could usually solve it. Let's go back to the Olympic game. So I get up in the morning and I'm not sure when the weigh-ins were, but I think I was probably a pound over. And that's about a half a kilo and 1.1 pounds is a kilo because we wouldn't kilograms.

You're on the off or not? No, I just I just went over to the they had a sign of there and I got in the sauna and the funny thing was the morning of the of the of the finals There was there was another athlete in the sauna mm-hmm And it was a European. I don't remember where she was from. I got a Russian. Well, you know what? I kind of think it was a plot because it was a girl. Interesting. And she didn't have her top one. And that was pretty common. And so, you know, it's kind of interesting. You think back about it because There's some funny things that go on behind the scenes in Olympic games, in world games, anytime when you have country against country. And so there's some crazy Steingles on. Did any of it affect you? Did you it was there and well I almost stayed too long in the time.

And I know why they picked him because he had a great attitude. So he wasn't just the typical artist. He was a good artist. He hooked elbows like Sajalaya. And he's from that area of the world where they have some of those types of moves. But he was a gore. But I cut him down away. He lost some of that gore. And I don't know if you've got a, that's a process you've got to go about scientifically. And so, you know, if you don't do it in an American, it can really hurt your performance. If you don't do it as a Russian, it can hurt your performance. And they already didn't really do that a lot, where you usually wrestle the weight, where it was more like your weight. And so, by cutting him down, you know, maybe slow it is

Yeah, but did he came back and he won, you know, rest of the matches and he was in the round robin and he was able to go to the finals. But he had lost another match actually against in the round robin against the Japanese. So I think I had already gained enough of artistic being able to finish a match once I lost my match in college for the last two years. I took on some of that artistic work and I think that he was already hoping to win, but he was hoping to win by a long ways because He had to pin me or beat me by eight points to be able to win the gold. And you know, that wasn't going to happen. I mean, it's just a pin is pretty good.

I can't remember too many that I took that would actually put me in a danger position. I've taken risk, but the risks were sold scientifically, technically, correct, that wouldn't land in that danger zone. It's like if I'm going to lock up and throw you, I'm not going to throw you to my own back and roll you through. I'm going to turn in the air. So you were scientific about it? Yeah, exactly. You know, I just, I learned the hard way. Early on, there was moves from collegiate wrestling that you did that exposed to shoulders, which It cost me some early freestyle matches against great wrestlers. But I would go back to my collegiate escaping type moves to where I hit a grand be wrong, where your shoulders and your loose two points every time. But you learned that that's not the system. But if you hadn't wrestled much, you would get exposed under maybe a desperate situation, you would hit it.

I think the question would be how would it feel if you lost the gold? for me, because I already went through that once. Not at that highest level, but the National Collegiate Championship level, my senior year. The Larry Ones Law. The Larry Ones Law. And that didn't set well.

Was that, you know, I really wasn't. But it was why I changed my philosophy of training and added to the scientific artist type. And if I had won that match, even though I wouldn't have felt good about it, even though I squeaked it out, I wasn't feeling good about that match. It would have affected me a little bit, but if I don't want it, I wouldn't have got over it. I mean, I'm not over it now. Yeah. I mean, I don't know why I was doing this kind of stuff right before my match. Yes. By that, I mean, this kind of stuff. Oh, yeah, journalists. Yeah. And I really wasn't a good talker. I mean, me and you were talking pretty good right now, except for I got a little cold, but I don't think I could say two words hardly then. And they took takes. Wide world of sports to take just We want you to be the introduction for our next week's show. So just say, hey, I'm Dan Gable. Come watch me as I finish my career on the feed at 1802 and 0.

And I said it. I had to take it 22 times. And in the last two or three times, they wrote it out. And I read it. And it still wasn't like I just said it. I was reading it like, hi, I'm dangable. Come, come on. You know, that type of stuff. Yeah. So it, Eddie finally just closed the book and said, hey, that's good enough. But I turned and it was my time to Russell. And so, you know, you just, you learn that, you know, and for me, it was great coaching experience because that's what I've turned into be, you know, I coach for longer than I wrestled. And I put out a lot of champions, but you learn through mistakes that even in your own career that you had made, you know, it's, it's, it's never learning process. It's an ever-learning process.

For a wrestler or it must be I'm sure fear is out there and I'm sure that was to my advantage almost every time I'm sure in my Olympic finals as really off he had these doubts he probably had these doubts and that gave me the edge and I don't know if I really ever had fear But obviously it was points and times where I didn't perform as well, not many, but a few. And if I look back of it, look back at it, I don't think it was that American, you know, raw raw raw stuff. I think it was probably the fear of not being an artist, as much. You know, maybe this guy might be better than me, scientifically. And, you know, you're a scientist. I think that got to me more than anything else. I said early on that I want to eliminate ever half of the worry about getting tired in a match. So I kind of eliminated that. So I got rid of that point. And I do think that in wrestling, that is one of the fears that a lot of wrestlers have. Actually, how they feel during the match. And do they get tired? And is it going to affect my performance? And as a coach, that really was one of the things I tried to eliminate on all my athletes. So there wasn't that fear factor. But that fear factor would be put upon my opponent, which would give me an edge. But that's not what I needed as much. I needed to just focus, make sure that I was doing the right things. And I needed my team to be focused. So I made sure that for my mistakes as an athlete or even as a coach sometimes that I didn't repeat them. Didn't repeat them. And if you make a mistake once that you can repeat it, then it's like it didn't learn anything.

You know, the question is really a good question about that pushing to you collapse because I don't as a coach today I don't think I could if I said that to my athletes I don't know I could get in trouble because you know it's understood isn't it by the athletes yeah they understand it but the outside might not understand it because it's almost like what do you mean they're pushing to the point where they go collapse means they may die or something might happen to them and you know that's dangerous that's dangerous we can't have our kid in that type of atmosphere but It's something that's highly unlikely that's going to happen, but I'm going to tell you there's many times in a practice where I had pushed myself to all of a sudden the whistle blew or it was time to stop and when I got up off the mat or wherever I was at and I needed water I needed I needed fresh air because you're usually in a fairly small room with a lot of guys that the heat rises and you know it's hard to breathe and that I can remember and I stayed a lot of times not by the door or the far end of the room. I can remember walking from the far end of the room to that door and I can remember am I going to make it the next step. Am I going to make it the next step? Yeah. I need air. I need water. I need oxygen. I need to get out of here. It didn't happen often, but I can count four or five times in my career that I pushed myself to that level where I thought I was going to maybe go out, but every step I was dizzy But once I got to that door, I was able to open it and go out and grab the water and get cold water in my face. And so, no, I never really was able to do that. And I think the story isn't in a book where my daughter pushed a collapse, Molly. It's a major proud.

You know, and she didn't win?

Yeah. No, did she suffer because of that? Well, she didn't get to go to the next event because she didn't she had to qualify, but I think it probably helped her to realize and because she was wooden the race and she was beaten people. She'd normally never pushed but she was at a new level that she had never been before and she only needed about five feet to finish and it was just one of those things that I bet there was a lot of learning that she did there and it probably made her realize that she could be better but she had to hold up though.

Well, I think anger would cause less successful wrestling. I think anger would cause you to make mistakes and actually get out of position because I think anger is kind of a loss of control. And there can be a furious type of attack. But I think if it crosses the line to anger, then you're going to be vulnerable. And so, Royce and the brands wrestled to the edge through the edge, but when the whistle blew, they stopped. And there's people that when the whistle blows, they keep going. It's like in a football game, a fight breaks out and it's after the whistle's blow. Well, when the whistle blew, they backed off. So that whistle was something that in a match that kind of gave them the boundaries.

Right exactly. You had that line. One side of the line you can have an anger for performance and the other side of the line you if you go beyond that it's not going to be for performance is going to be for not performance because you're going to lose points. It's a fine line. There's definitely a fine line. You're talking about Roy Salsier. You're talking about Tom Brands. You're talking about Terry Brands. I mean, you got World Championship titles there. You got Olympic Championship title there. You got a World Silver Medalist in Roy Salsier. And that's what when I talked to him about the World Silver Medalist, he's haunted by that. Because he was actually 20 seconds away from winning when he got beaten in the end there. But that's part of the game. it's I don't know whether he's okay with it or not because he says every after talking about things he goes I'm okay with it now but then he keeps talking about it so I don't really think he's okay with it and it's hard for him to actually make a men's to himself when you really don't do it I mean it's no matter what the situation even with the owing's loss yeah It's still eats it. I mean, yeah, we're more world champion. He's not and he wanted to be. I'm a Olympic champion. He's not.

Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, so he, you know, it's like, why do I keep going back to it? Because you're not, you don't get over those things. So Royce really keeps going back to it. Even though he says he's fine. But then he realizes he's really not fine because that's just the nature of the game. And that's why he was able to win national titles and make a world teams and stuff like that. You know, even if what's interesting about him, he's analyzed all the people that he's wrestled. And a lot of them have one world in Olympic championships. And he's beaten every one of them at one time or another. And he didn't get to that world championship gold or a Olympic gold. And that he says it because they did it. So he's showing people that I beaten those guys. But apparently he didn't beat him at the right time. And so it's still haunting. You don't get away from that stuff. I mean, it's just like anything in life that's really high. I mean, it doesn't have to be athletics. I mean, you think I'm ever going to get over the murder of my sister?

It can be very emotional to me under certain circumstances and And it can be the mood I'm in, you know, it can be maybe if I've had a mountain duel or maybe if I've had a gable beer or or or Or maybe if you turn the country music up a little bit loud. You know, emotions come out and everybody has them in their life. It's just so happens, you know, what brings it out. And hopefully it's nothing that you do to the extreme point of to where it brings it out. For me, it's not extreme. I don't have to have any of that, really. I can get emotional.

What it did was realize that I was already pretty well developed because I was only a sophomore 15 years old in high school and I had parents that weren't making it and my parents are a lot older than me and now that we're down just to me and my parents and I'm going to be around the house for another two years and they had just lost a daughter that was the only other simply They weren't handling it. They were the ones that were suffering much more than me, even though I always look back upon one area that I wasn't good at was communication at that time, except inside the restroom, because I had been tipped off. And tipped off, what do you mean? Well, the name really said that something to me about my sister just three weeks before that. That really wasn't normal or practical. And I said nothing to nobody.

Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. But I'm 15 years old and you make mistakes. And you don't really act on everything that happens in your life. But I can tell you how it affected me and I acted a lot on anything that maybe wasn't even of that consequence. I mean, because I had four daughters and I'm telling you, when they left every time to go somewhere in a car or go out with someplace, I always said something to it. and they had always said that last night.

I'd say like don't be driving and drinking or or don't be in a car with somebody that's you know of of the of the same nature or you know stay out of trouble you know don't be somewhere where you you know you have I said you know how to get out of a car if you your car goes into the river you know I just you know I'm always thinking ahead a little bit just in case of something did happen and I it goes back to that goes back to that walk to school with that with that young man that when he was talking to me and I just I took it and I kept it inside me and once I found out she had been murdered it took me maybe 25 to 30 minutes and I told my dad I think I know who killed her He looked at me and he just like, he slapped me actually. He pushed me against the car. He didn't slap me. He pushed me against the car. My mom slapped me. She was the one to slap me around a little bit. But my dad, he He pushed me because it's kind of like, what do you mean, you might know something about this? I said, Dad, I don't for sure, but, and I will probably all cry. But, and I don't, I've done if I was crying yet. Probably cried a lot of tears since, but, but, you know, I just said, hey, I was walking to school with this neighbor, and I never had walked to school with him before. And he was kind of a troubled kid. And he said something about Diane. and it wasn't good, but I didn't, he goes, why didn't you say something? I just, I just boy talk, you know? So, you know, and so he hugged me, he hugged me, he hugged me, and you know, it was one of these things that it's definitely made me a lot of who I am. because there's been a lot of choices and I don't I took the word choice out of my life and I just like to say I could do the right thing do the thing that you should do and so I don't really like and like you're gonna do this or this well what do you mean which one is better you know well then I so I don't have that choice yeah just give me the right way to go and so that's not that I've been perfect by any means but it's made a big difference in my life on how I handled my life. It's probably given me the opportunity to be married for 44 years. It's just given me opportunities to be better in my life. And I want to thank my sister for that. And I think my family was ready to make a split because of that, isn't it? They're blaming each other. And I think that I was able to help, but more than that, they really liked each other, but they didn't really know it at the time until I got out of the house of two years later. It probably was going on for a couple of years until I moved on and went to college, then they found out they really liked each other when they were alone, and it worked out pretty good. But I think them being able to follow me, not just through college and the Olympics and worlds, but my coaching. So it's the same, the same success and factor, you know, the excitement and all those things gave them a real purpose. And it gave my four daughters. It gave my wife, you know, a real purpose to be able to be close to all these champions and championships. And now it's like there's a family of 22. and they're all interested in what what we're interested in and it's going good knock on what but you know it's something that when all of a sudden you got too much time in your hands and you're not doing the completion much that things probably you know get off get off track what do you think is the role of family and wrestling can a man do it alone and if not where's family most important you know you could do it alone But why would you want to? Yeah. I think the chances of doing a loan are much less than the chances of doing it together. Yeah. I know they say don't bring it your profession home sometimes. I say that. That's my never. I never got away from my profession. Yeah. And you know, sometimes I It's like my house right here. So when I'm moving home, I'm not going to have an office because I'm not going to coach anymore or I'm not going to be in a system athletic director for a while that you got to do something that gives you a little bit of a break. Not you necessarily. Maybe the person you're living with. And so I don't know if you looked outside there, I got a cabin right out in my backyard. You probably can't see it right there. But what's in the cabin? That's my house away from my house. It's only 30 feet from my house. And it's my office. And it's my workout room. It's my, I got a son of there. It's a bed upstairs if I need it. If I ever get too close and she says, Hey, what'd you go sleep in the other house? But you know, it kicks me out of the bed, but get the heck out. It's never happened. Yeah. But I do spend a lot of time out there. And it's, you know, you got to have a little distance sometimes. And you got to know your, I don't know your role. And so all of a sudden when you're a guy that's been gone, your whole life from eight o'clock in the morning until close to seven thirty or eight o'clock at night. So 11 and 12 hours a day, then all of a sudden you're not gone as much. Even though you still work, she's trying to slow me down now. I'm doing not so much like here what we're doing right now, but when I get in the car and drive somewhere or fly somewhere, you know, like just last night, I went to bed and I hadn't told her that this guy called me and he wants me to speak for, uh, want to build a nut wrestling wants to start another wrestlers in business networking out in, uh, Delaware because we don't have his colleges and wrestling in Delaware. And so I said, well, you know, gladly that because that's my life, you know. So, but then all of a sudden, I didn't say anything. My wife and tell all of a sudden, it's this morning. And I told her that I might go on the Friday, the 21st of December. Oh, no. Well, I said, that's not Christmas. She goes, We're celebrating Christmas that weekend early because a lot of the family can't be here except for that weekend. And I said, Oh, well, that's not going to work. But I kind of didn't say anything to her first. And then, well, I'll tell you, she started getting a little emotional. And if I want to stay married for another year, 45 years, then I better tell those people that I got family obligations because, uh, you got to spend what's most important.

I love wrestling. And I want to start another way of helping start another runners and business network. But there's more than one day and gave it out there. Well, maybe not. But, but there's, there's a lot of people that are, um, maybe even closer. Yeah. And they got a big name. So I mean, we're doing pretty well right now. I mean, you got first two years ago. And we got second this year. And then we got the women's free styles doing good in wrestling. We got to work a little bit our Greco yet. But they are working on it. But our men's freestyle team right now are our excellent. And the key to for them is to get them all on the same page instead of just have new highlights. And by that, I'm saying, look, you look and see who won this year. Well, the three guys that have never won before won this year. We had three world champions. Our two past world champions. Didn't win this year. I mean, they did okay, you know, they got medals. Yeah, the boroughs win. No, he did not. He got third.

And such a life guy. I mean, Snyder got second. So those two are our main guys. You know, so the three new guys that came through were guys that hadn't won World gold. In fact, two of them have never made a world team before. And so when we have three world champions this year, but we needed all five of them to come through to win the the championships. And so the key really is getting them all to do the same at the same time year in and year out and not just uh based on okay uh Burl's got beat to share so he'll win next year. It's got to be every year if you're capable of doing that and that's what the Colchee staff has to do. What's kind of funny that I do have a lot of influence actually on the coaching staff right now at the USA level because the the women's freestyle got guy is uh is Terry Steiner and he rustled for memes in the National Champion. He's got a twin brother that's at the Fresno State. And then Billy Zatic is the freestyle coach and he rustled for the Hawkeye's back in the early days and he was the National Champion. We got a lot of a former Gabel influence on there.

Well, first of all, did it surprise me? Yeah. But did it really surprise me? No. You've got to run. You've got to have people running the organization that are top notch. If you take anything for granted and you're not the person of authority, somebody can kick you out. And even though we had a lot of authority because we're wrestling, we're one of the first sports in the Olympics ever. And that we think that, you know, we're in 180 some countries. And some of the number one countries in the world that are politically strong have the sport, you know, we thought we were okay. But then you got to look and see who's running the IOC. The IOC, the International Olympic Committee. And then you got to see that in wrestling, we don't have anybody in there. I mean, that shocked me. We've never had anybody on the IOC from wrestling. You know why? Because we didn't have to. But yes, that's wrong. You have to. And if you don't have somebody looking out for you right within the structure, Then it's pretty easy people turn their head. But all it took was the statement, you guys are kicked out of the Olympics.

I think. Well, yeah, I think it's the first time I've ever in history that probably all this competitive people that were working for their own agenda, turn that agenda to the sport. And so that made a big difference and we got a lot done. In fact, in America, there was several people that were really out there that we didn't know about until this point in time. And when they came aboard, now they're still aboard. That doesn't mean we're doing everything perfect because just because we got voted back in before we even got kicked out really. That doesn't mean we're by any means safe. We have to do some of the things that I'm talking about or some of the things that we didn't do before. We can't fall right back into the same mess. And so our leadership got changed and it's better, but it's got to stay better. But there are things that we could still be doing to make sure that we don't have situations like this happen. I'll tell you what I first learned about it. I was like, I broke down and wept. Again, it's like every once in a while, I'll break down and cry about my sister or I'll break down I don't know if I cry about losing knowing but I probably get more determined but that's kind of you have to go back and and think about those moments when you heard when I heard that moment and I I said, I, it just overcame me. It was like four o'clock, four, 30 in the morning. When I heard about it, and my wife had been up and looking at the internet. And she, she walked me out and I thought she was joking. But I jumped out of bed really quick when she said that. I knew she was serious. And I started making phone calls right then to find out if it was true. And when I found out it was true, you know, it was just like devastating, you know, and it was one of these things that it's a nightmare. But you don't let it happen again. It's that simple. Yeah, and you can get in stronger.

I don't think I ever looked at it as anything but just to a combat. And I think there's times that have made me figure out how to make that combat better. There's little markers or little points in time in your life that make you wonder, or it should say determined to be able to get more out of yourself. and to be able to take it to a new level. And I don't think people can actually feel that way unless you've actually had a lot of accomplishments in anything. I think there's anything out there. I mean, no matter what sport or break in the four minute mile, I mean, when you broke that when they broke that Roger Bannerster broke that form in a mile, I can't imagine him breaking it from his best time being 430. You know, it's one of these things that along the line there that he did add some close calls or he had some coaching that was given him the opportunity become a little better. But I think because he was doing well and being very successful that the opportunity came and so it's for me it's like the same thing I had so much success and so many practices that went well and so much goodness out of this sport that it gave me the opportunity to really look more finite and look more how I can even make it better. And so it's like, if you look at my library upstairs, I got a library upstairs. And there's a lot of books up there from the family. But if you look at the cable books up there, I got a lot of Russian technique books. I can't read the book, but I can see the diagrams. And I can see the figures. They don't really show it in pictures. They do it in drawings. and and so it's like when I was trying to beat the best that as labeled the best because they win the world championships every year since they've been just about involved and I don't think they got started involved until like the 50s but but you know it's something you know you study the best who's out there but then you don't focus so much on the best that you can't beat the best You learn from them, but there's something that they don't have that you can have.

Yeah, all that stuff. And that's why I even talking to you and you're sitting over there and you love MIT and you're bragging about it over Harvard. You know, you know, it's because it's true. In your eyes and that's great. And it might be, but it's the same type of thing that, you know, there's something that you're probably stealing from Harvard. Yeah. You won't give them credit.

No, I don't think I've ever caught a big ocean fish. I'm a river lake fisherman. I have fish in the trout. No, probably, probably northern. Probably caught a northern, that way, 20, some pounds. You know, fish I like to catch is wall ice. And the reason why I like to catch them, because they're really good eating fish. And the best eating fish are not the real big ones. You know, it's kind of interesting. I got people hunting deer right on my land, and they're looking for the big bucks, but they're not the best eaters if you want to eat, but they're the best trophy. So, you know, I do have a couple of trophy walleyes on the wall, but most of the time I throw the big ones back and put them back in there.

For me, I'm not about luck. But I do think there is luck is involved. But I think it's mostly created just how luck you are through preparations. And things have, things have happened in my life forever. And a lot of good things. And a lot of people could say, hey, you pretty lucky to win all these awards. I don't know if you analyze my life. I don't think it was involved with luck. I think it was more involved with preparation. And again, science had you been smarter, had you understood that you could do some things and be just as lucky, that'd be great. But I'm only a smart as today. So when I was training in my life and me even training people in my life, As of that moment, that's how lucky I am to be able to have whatever is available to me. And that's what you call that a lot of science. So for me, I think that, you know, like right now if I look back, I do a lot of things different, just because things are proven differently. Like I'd give people water, turning practice and I did. And I would let them change their wrestling shoes and to run and choose to run sprints on the concrete. Or I would actually maybe maybe I've had a guy climb 12 ropes after practice one after another. And then maybe the next day I'd do it again. I might not making do it the next day. I might let him recover a little bit more. And you got to learn, keep adding to your philosophy. And your philosophy may have been great at that time, but it's at that time. And what is really important is where you at with this time today. And so there's better ways to do things. Now, if you ever take attitude out of it and just depend on total science, then you're not going to be as, you know, I think I listen to a couple people that are really pretty famous people. You want to almost John Irving. He was a writer. Yeah. And he told me, he says, you think I really learned how to be a great writer in Writing school? I said, yeah, I learned a lot there, but really, what gave me the ability to stay focused, to work extra hours, to be more disciplined, was wrestling practices.

Yeah, he goes, I go back to that. That's what gave me that chance. You know, and there's a guy and I, well, that guy named Norman Borlogh, He invented a process to feed the under-privileged countries of the world. he was a wrestler and he said the same thing and he he worked extremely hard and he said I give a lot of credit to the sport wrestling and even though I was I'm known for this and I got a statue and in what what you see because I saved a billion lives plus I'm going to give wrestling a lot of credit so You know, I think some of these MMA stars and some of these guys that maybe weren't wrestlers that had to wrestle, had to fight wrestling guys and stuff missed a little bit there. But I think the ones that did have wrestling probably have a really good chance and can adapt to the other ones. But you know, I think every martial art or every activities good and you probably can't skip any, but I don't think they're ever going to overlook and say that wrestling's pretty pretty not are not valuable because it is. However, that doesn't mean you're going to make it. You still got to take the values and apply it. Whatever area you're going to be in and and some people forget that. Some people can't get over behind us of getting your arm raised in a wrestling match and that and you know what what's even greater than me getting my arm raised is that I if I'm a coach or if I was in the belong with you that you get your arm raised yeah and even if you don't get your arm raises what you walk away with and how and how you learn to handle that as well because there's going to be some losses but you don't want many Because you don't want to get used to losing.

Absolutely. That luck. I like luck, but I think it's created by the opportunity that you make your luck.