Transcript for JRE MMA Show #79 with Vinny Shoreman & Liam Harrison

Here we go, Liam, and Vinnie, my savage friend from Mother England. Thank you for letting me see you again, man. What's happening? How's it been?

But if I over here as well, 50 today. Happy birthday, sir. Thank you, sir. I'll be the day over 49 to have them. It would be good.

When you're a world kickboxing champion, pull a muscle bone. It's a sad thing.

What have you done? Worst neck injuries I ever got was in the shower. I mean, I just turned my teeth to my shampoo. I just like that and I'm like, ah fuck. Just pop I'll get that knocked over Roy McDonald and Bruce Lee with my antics.

I cut it on at least I won the game Well imagine if like you had a workout in the train or it's like okay, we're gonna do some bowling. You're like how the fuck

No problems. Ball in. Well, maybe it was like some residual stiffness.

Yeah, man. That's legit. That's a big deal. Like when I come out of here, like when I just get up after sitting in a chair for five hours, I might everything feels weird, you know.

What are you doing? Night my demons. What have you been up to?

Yeah, but you're 50. I get it with him. I don't get it. Yeah, no. You're supposed to be.

That's true, too. Yeah, the craziest fucking record ever is probably Loma Chanko, right? Because didn't you only have one loss in the Amateurs? Yeah, 398 wins. Something crazy like that. 397 wins, one loss. Yeah. Which you've, which you reversed. Yeah. And then one loss in the pros.

Well, as he's moving up, he's not cutting it. No. Yeah. Yeah. He's third way class. This is third way class, right?

What is this? He's going up and down. Yeah, that's what Bob Iron said. But his last fight against the Englishman. What is his name, Connolly? Luke Campbell. How was that? It was a great fight. Yeah. That kid's good.

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Did you feel like that?

Yeah, I bet he wasn't looking at you I bet it were in my room in my world He wasn't you can't say that was it help you at all the thing to do is look? Yes, what do you get out of that?

Oh, okay, that's something so yeah

Wasn't fun at all. But you're better now? Yes, sir. So it couldn't have been that big a deal. But in my words, I was like two weeks ago.

So, any little poll just straightly? One thing about socialized medicine, that you guys have free healthcare. You don't have to worry. You just go show up.

Yeah, you could. Once you get in there, you actually, it's crazy. It seems like you can't, but I love to get high and do it because it's like, I feel everything. I know, I'm in tune, I get like 100% transmission from all muscle fibers.

It's fucking hard. It's fucking hard. Seriously. Oh, ladies will make you feel stupid. We're 100% It's one of those things where people look at it like it's some relaxing thing. It's one of the most underestimated activities you can do in terms of like the amount of stress and strain means required. It's fucking hard.

Yeah, yeah. I bring a 64 gallon. Oh, it's a gallon. Oh, it's a 64. What does it leaders? No, that doesn't mean any sense. What would a big ounces? ounces. That is? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 64 ounces of water. Yeah, like a hydroflask. I bring a big one. And I just fill it up with ice and water. And I just fucking drink the thing the entire time. And I make sure I drink a shit little water on the way over there, too. You're just pouring water. But they did a study recently, Harvard study. There's one of them they're doing right now where they're trying to see if the same effects from hot yoga you get from sauna. Like if it's very similar because sauna does, you know, it's like 40% decrease across all causes of mortality, heart attacks, strokes, with people that regularly do this on, and I think they consider it four days a week, they have like incredible results like health wise, because of the reduction of inflammation, because when you're in that heat, it just really reduces inflammation across your whole body. They think that that's going on when you're doing yoga, because your body heats up so much, because even though it's only 140 degrees in there, when you're fucking sweating in 140 degrees, and shake your body temperature. It's got to be through the rules.

Oh, yeah, big giant people. You don't realize how badly out of balance your body is if you're a weightlifter until you do yoga. Like, especially those dudes with a little toothpick legs and a big meatball body. Yeah, that's a fucked up body.

Yeah, it's like a like a car with a giant engine and skinny back tires. You just slide all over the place. It's, it's just, but I think for athletes, it's one of the very best things to keep your entire body balanced, to keep it in tune.

yeah i know it's great for you and it's also for for kickboxer like your coordination and your your your ability to have a full range of most of the ability everything now head kicks you know you want that flexibility want it to be looser so you can let those babies fly

How was your knee? I know you had a knee surgery.

You got surgery in Thailand?

That's the downside of socialized medicine, right? Big whites. Canada's rough I had a friend shed a weight over a year to get a late in these surgeries. Yeah, yeah over a year with a bad knee just hobbling around one you know That's the thing that is just like that. It's bad, right? It's good. It's bad.

I had that exact same injury. It's called a bucket handle, terrible excuse. Yeah, yeah. Oh, god damn, it's funny.

Now, when they remove the chunk, is your Neo K now? Did it feel unstable at all? Or does it feel sore?

No, it helps, man, if you get some stem cell shot in there. Yeah, just make your way down the Panama. I know you told me that before you mess with me.

Yeah, I was having real problems with my left knee because that's the one that I had the Manuski's tear and anytime I had to do anything rigorous it would start swelling and it would hurt And then I got one stem cell shot, like five years ago. It's never bothered me. Really? Never bothered me since.

I don't think that's for, see, the difference between meniscus and ligaments is that that's more of something that they think is really good for tendons and right. Right. Right. But that's, there's some real promising results. Yeah. I've heard like people write about it.

Yeah, Dr. Mark Gordon is using that in his protocols. He's the guy that does a lot of work with traumatic brain injuries and different, you know, people like pretty significant injuries and he's found there's some great papers that are being published right now on BPC-157. Hey, you got straight into growing them? Yeah, it's a peptide. Shoot it into the old groin area.

So this one's 100, this one's 5%.

How much difference? About that much. Can you put that much in your shoe? Yes, I've got one.

Don't know. Dr. One man's going to be this great.

So how is fighting in one of the seats? I'm sick, man.

I need to let the little gun out here. It's amazing.

How do they make the rule sets? Because some fights or with kickboxing gloves, some fights with MMA gloves.

But boxing gloves feel more spongy.

So one mistake in them gloves and it is- That's the interesting thing that makes you reassess your defense. Yeah, because your defense is dependent. Like you see a lot of guys like butter like butter always fought like this. Yeah, hands like those earmuffs.

What did you think when they had their barren echo boxing event, Pauli Mollonage? Part R-11. Yeah, yeah, sorry. That's one of the more interesting cases because you got a guy in Paul and Mullen, Ajay, who's a legitimate world champion and world class boxer, you know, a few years past his prime and has really been fighting, but then you see him fight a guy like Artem Loboff, who's used to fighting with MMA glows is not much of a difference fighting bare knuckle. and blow off actually, what's on? Yeah, I mean eating him in a decision, which nobody fucking talk about.

I still thought about it enough. Yeah, to put that in no-nothing. You know, like a guy like Roy Jones Jr. and you know, not our box in him, you know, saying like if some, it's just like a world-class box or you would imagine even if he's a few little tricks just to get you. He's still gonna fuck you up. He's just gonna make the adjustments. Yeah. for it.

You know, I mean, did he barks with bare knuckles?

Yeah, there wasn't a lot of combinations exchange, but that's the case with most of those baronuckle fights. It's totally different than that.

Well, people like the least rules violence. Yeah, the least rules possible. They like it, you know, like left way or, you know, anything along those lines, you know, headbutts with left way. I mean, they take it to another level, right? Yeah. That's great. Yeah. Yeah.

David will do. Yeah, probably. Yeah. Yeah. He's, I've got him coming on the podcast, you know. I was a big proponent of no gloves with MMA. I was like, well, if you don't have gloves on your shins and your knees and your elbows, why the fuck do you have my unlocks? Yeah, I changed my mind. I think it's a cut.

Well, we've seen that with, you know, MMA fighters. It's a really top flight kickbox. It's like go-go-onsaki. Go-konsaki fought collil roundtree and collil just cracked him with one left hand and dropped him. It's like it's a different way. Exactly. 100% I mean, you thought GoCon soccer, man. He is one of the lead of the elite in kickboxing in MMA. If anybody's gonna beat him, it's gonna be on the ground. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You don't expect anyone to play soccer, buddy. Anybody can get caught with this little gloves.

That's one of the craziest things about fighting, right? You train for years and years and years and then you have this style and you try to make adjustments during the fight, but as soon as things get crazy, you go back to what you go right back. That's why I always felt like it's almost not almost. It's definitely worse to learn things wrong and then relearn them than to not learn anything at all and start with than a blank slate. Like if you could teach someone, and they were 25, and they had no martial arts experience whatsoever, versus teach someone, and they have five years of some bullshit. Yeah. That five years of some bullshit is gonna, that's gonna be in their head. Yeah, muscle memory, you got a lot of enemies.

You know, some guys were effective even in the karate way like the like the cuz amount of power they could generate like Krokopp was a great example. Yeah. He kicked karate style, but the fucking power that got legendary. Yeah, but Ed Kick. Yeah. Oh, my God. He's graceful. My body kicks. You remember that there's a fucking picture when he kicked Heathherring. It is till this day one of the most to this day.

When he took his glasses off, I was like, I wasn't even the room, I got scared. But there's a shot of Krokop with his shin half way into Heath Herring's body. Look at this picture. Look at this picture.

Oh my god That fucking body shit only like who's that Jesus Christ?

I don't think that's the one with Heathherring. The one with Heathherring is, see, that's it, upper left hand corner. That's it. Oh, that's full of shit. Oh, yeah, look at that one. Oh, look at that one. Oh my god, go full screen on that. Look at the fucking penetration. That is her riff, and that's all liver. It's liver. Yeah, it's not proper. Yeah, it's not proper. Oh my god. That guy could generate so much force with that left kick. It's insane, but that one right there. I mean fucking A. Yeah, nah. The most of the most horrific body shot I've ever seen in all of MMA.

Full shin. For perfect. Just that's like a textbook. But he again karate style.

I know he had a traditional martial art background when he got in the kickboxing, but see he is a good example of a guy who made that transition well into MMA because he was so explosive. Whereas there's other guys like like if you had a guy like Peter Aertz who wasn't as explosive he wasn't like he was more of a technician and methodical or nestle or nestle who's They probably wouldn't have had the same sort of success in MMA as Marco did. Yeah definitely. Like remember when Ernesto fought Bob's app. Yep. Oh, yeah. That's twice. That's stop by couldn't keep him off. Yeah. We're mo- Marco fucking murked him.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. You need to have that explosiveness that those guys didn't have. It's interesting how, like, so many variables change what a fight is. No gloves versus gloves. Changes what a fight is. Changes your ability to defend yourself. And then, you know, whether or not there's takedowns or grappling. Like, that's one thing about kickboxing versus moly tie. It's like people say, well, I like kickboxing because it's more action because you can't clench my shit.

Yeah, so you're going to lose to the body. And from the clenching, trying to escape from the clenches and aren't in itself.

You know, this gentleman who's training about a harry, who was he trained before?

He did look good in his last fight. He did look good in his last fight. I mean, a lot of people thought Melvin was done.

That's that's his whole deal. You know, he's just as wild. He's fighting a good guy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, but Rico was calm bullshit Rico said he just wanted out of the fight when Rico was on the podcast He's like you look at him. He goes he looks at one elbow and then changes his mentality Yeah, what's that? He said he wanted out. He said he wanted out. He was getting fucked up Yeah, and he said he knew that I was tuning him up, you know, and I don't know I mean that's also Rico trying to fuck with him Yeah, getting this out. Yeah, but yeah, it's like I would have loved to see Bauder have a few fights and get real sharp. He had like one, right? Do we have one? Did he fight?

Hmm, so hadzy Rico, we hasn't fought since.

Does that say it hasn't fought? Oh, that's glory. Yeah, but not glory, but he did try a couple of us wait for you. But go pull up as Wikipedia record. His Wikipedia record, he'd definitely had at least one fight since... Yeah, long, long, it was. Yeah.

I think he fought Hedsey again. Did he fight Hedsey again?

That was a long time ago in the show tonight. All right. Okay, what does he got? Okay, so you did fight Hedsey?

So that was at, he had a no contest against Hedsey, the last fight. What is that? Test decision anonymous. Why does it say no contest? Is that where it's so intense positive? When did the kick come off floor? And it's shell time line. Look at this, it says decision unanimous, but it says result no contest. What the fuck is that? In blue as well, I'm never saying that. Yeah, can you click on that? What does it say?

Both fighters. Why you test in Bauderhard? Just look at his Instagram. That's enough. You should just give him a suspension based on his Instagram. Like, listen, bro. He's jacked. I mean, go to Bauderhard's Instagram. He's about a shredded as like a professional fighter.

So what does Rico fight are they going to test him? I wonder. Look at him. Look at him. Look at him. He's obviously an incredible physical condition, but the thing, look at him, dude. Look at that fucking picture. Get fucking in. Come on, son. He's on all the Mexican supplements. All of them. He should be wearing it some brairo in that picture. Looking good, butter. I'm really excited about that fight. Please don't test them. I think it's in December. I think it's December 12th. Please don't test them. Just stop, go or stop that thing. Let it go. Let it go.

No, no, do you think that that is the way to go or but look at the success that a lot of the tie guys have had in glory.

But for sure, but what about when in Southport, Southport?

That's the seems like they're limiting their future.

But the problem is they love fighting, right? Well, you're fucking yourself over and you're going to limit your ability to fight for a long period of time.

I don't want to win you myself. You're worried about your knees?

What is the difference in the amount of damage you take with hard kick sparring versus hard boxing sparring?

Well that's also jujitsu. I mean the hanner Gracie his whole thing was always keep it playful. You tell people you want to learn jujitsu want to get really good be playful. Don't be fucking stupid.

If you play a basketball on someone's scores and you, it's not the end of the world, they exactly. You know, about boggles in the, it's fun. You don't get to your knees start crying, but if you get caught in an arm bar, it's like your life is over. It's not. You got caught. You know, if you don't, if you don't think the guy who's you're sparring with Ken Katchew, you're sparring with the wrong people. Yeah. If you're fucking tapping everybody, either your hips and Gracie, and you're just so good, you're better than everybody else, or you're sparring with people that are not challenging.

Yeah, that's a wise thing man. It's wise and I really wish more young fighters would appreciate that early in their career because I think so many of them are compromised by the time they get to the big leagues. You know by the time they get to Bellator or MMA with UFC or you know even kickboxing guys By the time they get to big fights, they've already been dinged up too much. They can't take a shot.

It would have been amazing if we got a chance to see Floyd versus Loma when Floyd was in his prime. Yeah. That would have been fucking incredible to see which style superior. Yeah, because Floyd would move towards you like this. He would just get right up on you and they'll be trying to move on the back of him.

He was executed. No, no desire. I mean no business being in the room. But just show you how good Floyd really is. People just because the fact that he's won decisions by playing at safe, people that don't get excited about him and the recognizing with the all-time grades, he's the best staff. I believe so. Absolutely. Change can now start. Yeah, I did. You look at the way can outfied the Daniel Jacobs. If you find it so much head movement and so, so elusive now. Yeah. And he learned. Yeah. You know what? What do you think about canal going up a fight and covalve? Um, kind of crazy. You know what? You know what? You know what? You know what?

I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am.

That is such a fucking British thing. You know what an American is.

Well, he was tested in his last fight. What's I do? And then he out. And then he out. In round eight, he was gone in round eight. Yeah, he did well to recover from that. He was walking in, tapping around eight. I mean, it looked bad. It looked like he was a couple punches away if he didn't stop.

Yeah, it's a kind of a little bit of experience. Yeah.

Yes, that experience, that experience, and understand like, wow, as conditioning is probably a little off. Maybe you need still lose a little bit of muscle mass. Yeah, maybe needs to put in more running, but God damn he's good, he's scary. Powerful kid. Yeah. Really powerful. You know, I mean even Crusher said it afterwards.

yard skill.

I mean, we were talking about it. Look at the The vision that's fucking Russian, it's crazy, but then in then you suck is going up to heavyweight heavyweight, really fine, fine, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine, yeah, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine, yeah, it's fine, it's fine, yeah, it's fine, it's fine, yeah, it's fine, yeah, it's fine, yeah, it's fine, yeah, it's fine, yeah, it's fine, yeah, it's fine, yeah, it's fine, yeah, it's fine, yeah, it's fine, yeah, it's fine, yeah, it's fine, yeah, it's fine, yeah, it's fine, yeah, it's fine, yeah, it's fine, yeah, it's fine, yeah, it's fine, yeah, it's fine, yeah, yeah, it's fine, yeah, it's fine, yeah, it's fine, yeah, yeah, it's fine, yeah, it's fine, yeah

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Yeah. Well, he won a, he won his last fight by split decision though. In a certain arm. All right. Yeah. So I don't know who we fought.

Yeah. But I think,

I'm sorry I gotta make a text that I forgot about. Don't keep talking.

I'm thinking that with Tyron Spong, what's interesting is that, you know, he had this really big career as a kickbox. He was one of the best. And he has to have fight with Go Khan Sockings. Snaps is one of the best.

I've seen that in person twice. Yeah, so if I Anderson and there was another gentleman that the also Corey Hill, was a Corey Hill. I think it was Corey Hill. It's just a rough fucking break man. That's a terrible injury because then you're always going to be thinking about going to throw it, you know? 100%. And then they also say that when you have those metal plates, a lot of like page vansant is dealing with that. Like the area where the metal meets the bone, sometimes it compromises that bone. And so it snaps. Like where in it's like she's had like I think three different surgeries on her forearm. She broke her forearm throwing a spinning back fist and hit somebody in the fore I had fucking hell. That's the way Paul fell. The brok is, too. Through it and you land like this, like with your forearm instead of your fist, you know, and just your arms snaps.

Is it the elbow joint though? Is it just the joint? I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

Twisted around it, horrendous. I was in Utah recently. I was in Park City and my family and I were driving down the street. We saw this lady fall down on her bike. She was on the other side of the street and she was crossing and something happened. She slipped and she fell and she was just yelling for help and so we looped around Park the car. I get out in her fucking elbow. It was like the bone went like this and the elbow went like that and I'm like stop moving. What are you trying to do there, yeah? Just can't do shit. I'm like, and they're like, take, let's take you back, pack off with it. I'm like, don't touch her back, man. I'm like, grab my hand. I'm gonna help you up. We're not gonna move your arm. Your arm is broken. I'm never at a broken bone. She's like freaking out. She's 50.

Like, and then, you know, the lucky thing for her, the cops were there, but it's like seeing your of a bone of a person that's just clearly snapped and seeing the elbow just kind of hanging, makes you realize how fucking fragile we are.

It's just, we're so fragile, but then you think about, look, what we enjoy. Like, you need to be in joy, or you need to be in joy, or you need to be in joy, or you need to be in joy, or you need to be in joy, or you need to be in joy, or you need to be in joy, or you need to be in joy, or you need to be in joy, or you need to be in joy, or you need to be in joy, or you need to be in joy, or you need to be in joy, or you need to be in joy, or you need to be in joy, or you need to be in joy, or you need to be in joy, or you need to be in joy, or you need to be in joy, or you need to be in joy, or you need to be in joy, or you need to be in joy, or you need to be in joy, or you need to be in joy, or you need to be in joy, or you

That is weird, right? Like the enjoyment of watching something else. God damn it's so enjoyable. It is. It's the most fun.

Well, that's why people love you because you have that sort of lust for combat. You know, it's like that, you either have that or you do not. You know, some people, they look for a way out and some people look for a way in. Yeah. You know, I mean, that really is the difference between people who when lose their draw, love a real epic scrap.

you know it's interesting I wonder how many fighters careers could be extended if they took a different approach to the way they recuperated between fights because I think so many fighters they'll have a fight they recuperate a little bit and then they have another fight and they recuperate a little bit and there's a a lot of benefits to that in terms of your timing and your relaxation inside the ring because you're so used to competing it's like you get that but then your body I feel gets compromised after a while you see like they're throwing punches different there's not a lot of fluidity to it and you wonder like if they did a lot of physical rehab or preparation in terms of like weightlifting and stretching and yoga. Maybe even Pilates and chin ups and push ups and just strengthens their body more. And you know, like everyone's concentrating on fighting techniques. It's fighting techniques, sparring, getting in condition, making the weight. But physical training.

Yeah, twice a month.

I know he was like, but in his smiling, he puts it on his Instagram page. I fight tonight like dynamite.

And then, you know, afterwards, big smile, you know, I won. Of course you won it.

We're talking about them. We're drinking in Jackson. We're drinking in Jackson. We're drinking in Jackson. We're drinking in Jackson. We're drinking in Jackson. We're drinking in Jackson. We're drinking in Jackson. We're drinking in Jackson. We're drinking in Jackson. We're drinking in Jackson. We're drinking in Jackson.

I think we'd run out.

Yes. I mean, you know, obviously Georgia Petros, and he's probably the most popular I ever from Italy.

What do you think about that fight where he lost in the reverse of decision? What do you think about that?

Well, I watched the thing where they were saying that he clinched who I didn't see it. Yeah, yeah. Well, it seemed like a normal fight to me.

And then they fought again and George, you want to pretty clear what you want to clear. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think was the adjustment? Like kicks.

I've never seen him like that before.

I think he probably realized that there was a lot of stuff on his head. He had to cut, I mean, he, you know, he put it to bed with the second fight. But when you're Georgia, Petrosion, you know, you really kind of have this, I mean, the one knockout that he lost in glory to Christy. Christy just hit so fucking hard man. But that was very shocking. Yeah. You know, it took a while for him to rebound from that, right? He didn't say it in a while.

He didn't say it in a while. He didn't say it in a while. He didn't say it in a while. He didn't say it in a while.

He didn't say it in a while. He didn't say it in a while. He didn't say it in a while. He Still kept going.

Oh, so it was broken and you never even ever went into the hospital.

Yeah. And it still hurts when you punch people. Altime, yeah. Just have to get on with it and try to imagine if it's probably jagged in there, right?

It's screaming. It's very exciting. It's very exciting to watch, but I always wonder about your joints, like Jesus Christ's shoulders, like everything's like... It's like so much torque. You know, that's, but that's the thing about strength and conditioning that I wonder, like how many guys are overusing their body by just continuing to throw, you know, like full power kicks, full power punches at the pads, at the bag, you know, and sparring, whereas like maybe you could extend your career and extend, and maybe your body would work more efficiently if you had like a really good strength and conditioning coach who actually understands combat sports and the rigors.

seeing to get it into me head out to run because of alert to walk in such a different way because of one leg is shorter yeah maybe probably better off doing something that's like low impact yeah have you seen that zero runner thing that I have out there It's very interesting. It's weird. Like you got to learn the gate of it, but once you learn the gate of it, it's like it mimics running, but there's no impact at all. Right? It's because it's real weird, because most people when they get on it, their legs just start swinging. And you're like, this is stupid. Then I'm like, like, I had to show my wife. I was like, don't know, don't swing, like lift your legs up, like bounce, like you're running. And then once you do that, you go, oh, okay. And then you get a Yeah, and you could run, but it's actually harder than Joe's run air. So it's like, it's like, I think I'll win it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. I've used it a few times and I'm, you know, it's, it's kind of a torturous situation. Don't you don't look convinced. I do but I use everything you know like I have a gang shit out there, right? I have a roger I have that echo bike from rogue I have the Versa Climax fucking yeah, that bike and then the the self-powering trail trail the treadmill thing from Airrunner. It's airrunner right? Is that a major sprint on it? Yeah, but you're powering it. And it's like, that's the best. For running for real running, because it's actually 13% something like that harder than actual running, because you're propelling the treadmill as you're running. So when you do that, and then you go to regular run, like you have more pep in your stuff, because you're used to running at a disadvantage, because of that thing. But it's actually therapeutic. And it's also got a bounce to it. So it's not a lot of pounding. You know, it gives and you're running on this thing and you're actually pushing it with your feet as you're almost like pulling it as you're running. Just try it. That's enough of thing.

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If you want to be more confident, you have to start taking care of yourself.

level stuff. There's a lot of fighters that they ruin their knees and they can't run anymore and they have to figure out what to do. Like Kamara Usman, UFC welterweight champion, he's got some of the most incredible cardio of anybody and he can't run. His knees are destroyed. He said his knees were so fucked up that he has to walk on grass. Like when he's running, he walks on grass rather than concrete because his knees are hurting.

It's totally possible to get an amazing shape without running, but running helps. Yeah, I believe so. Yeah, I believe. Yeah, I believe.

Well, perfect examples of Kobe Covington, Kobe Covington, he's got insane cardio. I mean, that Robbie Lauer fight, his fucking cardio is insane. And he trains with my friend, Cam Haynes, who's an ultramarathon runner, and they've run Mount Pigs in Oregon. If you run with a person who's like a real runner, like someone who does like, my Cam does 240 mile races. They last three days. Yeah. Yeah, and you sleep for like 14 minutes and three days. I'm not just, yeah, believe me. Yeah, the woman who won it, Courtney Doe Walter, she slept one time, she slept for a minute. One minute, they woke her up, she said she felt amazing. After that, one minute slowly. Really? Yeah, what's up, it was good. She's a savage, that lady, that lady is the mental strength of someone like that, like, because she can't, she's not like a tough girl, like she's your off kicker ass, like she's all smiling, happy, but the real strength, like when the fucking rubber hits the road, like, are you gonna quit? dilating and quitting shit you ain't getting her to quit. She want to race when she was blind. She was having some sort of a bleeding in her retinas and she couldn't fucking still fucking pussy all of us are doing. Two hundred five miles in one run. Courtney Dohalter is an ultra addict. That's her. Of course she did. She's a savage man. This lady's a savage. She beat. She won that 240 mile race and she beat the second place person by 10 hours. Whoa, 10 hours. 10 hours. I have a fucking animal, dude. She just does it.

He's still one by two hours.

Yeah, and again, like she eats fucking candy and drinks beer and not chosen shit. Like her diet is not like it's not like she's droggle from rocking. Yeah, gotta strap up and she doesn't.

Well, I also think he's really ramped it up since the match. Yeah, he faded in that fight. Yeah, he started battling.

Yeah, well, you know, that's what happens with, you know, Brian is a championship caliber fighter. We never won a title, but he was beating world champions like Frankie Edgar, like really elite guys, and, you know, he just ran into the best guy in the fucking business at 145.

Well, to me, Brian Ortega's got great stand-up for sure, but his best skill for sure is his ground game. And for him to not emphasize that as his strategy and the fight to me just seems, I feel like it's short-sighted because I think he could tap anybody in the world at 145 pounds. I really think.

Big for that way.

Oh yeah, nice. Well, this fucking triangle. I mean, that's his nickname T-City. Yeah, T-City. He throws triangles up like a fucking world-beater. And it's crazy when you roll nice guy, man. Sharp, sharp technique, man. But, you know, again, guys fall in love with their hands. Yeah. You know, they fall in love with the ability to punch people. I just think that jujitsu and MMA, I mean, one of the things about MMA in general, is that there's so many different ways to win. Yeah. And when you do win by knockout a few times, you kind of get into that and you kind of look to do that all the time.

Yeah, yeah. So dangerous man. There's happened to Gaston Bilanos, you know, got caught with a guillotine in his last fight.

No, the Saturday? Yeah, I love Gaston.

Yeah, oh my god. Yeah, it's crazy.

Yeah, the quality.

And that's another gym that really emphasizes strength and conditioning when they have a whole CrossFit gym. Yeah, they could attach to it. Yeah, they do.

How many times do you do stroke the conditioning a week twice twice? And is that when you're in camp for a fight as well or just normally?

Just to conserve your body.

Yeah. Yeah, true. It's why you're so exciting because you have this drive to succeed. It is the interesting thing about strength and conditioning to me is that there's no clear blueprint. It's no there's no like. It's not, there's no established protocol. Like you have to do this and then you do this and you do that and then two days a week you do this. It's not, everybody does differently. Yep. And then you've got like the Nick Curse on school of thought, like the Martin of it school of thought, which was those guys just concentrated almost entirely on strength of conditioning. And their thought was that strength of conditioning is everything. You already know how to fight. Yeah. So when you're in camp, you should just be doing box jumps and rope skips and all these fucking explosive things with balls and medicine balls and shit and their ideas like get your engine so you have the most incredible gas tank the most powerful engine you already know how to fight and then skill work is secondary while you're in camp And then when you're at a camp, then you work on all your skills. Then you hit the pads, you do all these different things. You do less of the strength and conditioning, but you maintain a base. But then when you go in a camp, the camp, like when B.J. Penn was out as best. He was trained with Marvin Runevic, like when he fought Diego Sanchez, when he fought Sean Cherk, that was the best B.J. Penn we ever saw. And he was in insane shape. And same shape is because they brutalized him. I mean, they just made him go through these absolutely insane strength and conditioning work out. So they gave him this this cardio base and this conditioning base that was just through the roof.

It's clearly the cover level is the best fighter he's ever fought. It just takes a while to understand, like as a fighter, that you know, you know, there's levels to the game. But when you use to just put knuckles to face and put in people to sleep, you just think, I'm going to put this guy to sleep too. And when it doesn't work out, you're like, okay.

What was it like going to Thailand?

So stay in Thailand for six months? Yeah, yeah.

The whole culture of fighting over there, the fact that they get those kids to fight, you know, they take them from their parents, essentially when they're like five, six years old. And they spend most of their time in the gym. And then they have their first fights when they're little tiny kids. And then by the time they're 15, 16 years old, they might have 100 fights.

Yeah. That's it. Singedums, a legend. Just stop and think about how crazy that is. Like how many, what are you doing? 25 times a year.

But what is that Linnerman? What is it?

I think there's an issue with people using that shit though in the clench because they use it on their body and then they clench with you and they get it on your face.

Did you complain about it?

dirty people. That's so dirty. The people cheat like that. That makes me so sick. Like that goes against everything that's fighting is supposed to be about. It's supposed to be about your at your best. There at your best. You touch gloves. I was told when George O'Presosan introduced him for non-ethan Paul Pramok.

It's like fighting in towns a good jump I've been damn moving. It's like there's also a fuckery of foot.

I love the gambling culture though. I love the fact that they're like you see all the guys in the background like passing money around and it's like crazy.

When you have to fight three days after you've fought, do you train it all in between those fights? I couldn't.

Because you needed money.

What is the difference between fighters that train in Pooca and fighters at the time?

That's a crazy place in the world, Bangkok. Think of this one place with this one style of fighting became the most popular, and it's used as gambling. If you think of the rest of the world, there's no place where you go where people wrestle for money, where everybody's gambling on wrestling, right? There's no place you know where people throw money in the air for wrestling.

Oh, that makes me so crazy. That's why it works there. But it's just They fucking figured something out that other people didn't figure out. I mean, you think about the one part of the world. It's an island. They figured out about how to kick the legs better than anybody. It's really crazy. They figured out how to work the clench and knee to the body better than anybody to dump people and help them. Yeah. We dropped them and sweep them.

How does San Chai able to keep up this high level of skill and performance at 40 years old?

He also is very agile in terms of his footwork.

interesting about san tris wells that like his style so he's so light on his feet. Yeah, you know, and he doesn't kick full blast. You know, like even when he's hitting the pads like hey, hey, it's like he's slapping the pads. He's not fucking digging in, you know, like some guys

Question mark kicks off the charts. And he also, he does stuff like, he'll land head kicks at a really close distance by stepping off to the side. Remember that one time, he was like a crazy head kick. Yeah, against the ropes, and he steps off to the side and lands like, I was on the side right up and down. Yeah, strike it. Just the ability to land a high kick in that tight. It's crazy.

And that's when that kick's going to come up. Does he, is he influencing younger tie fighters to fight more light on their feet and to have more movement? Because You know, the tie fighters, it's so common to see guys like standing right in front of each other and exchanging techniques. He's not doing any of that.

Yeah, I think that coaches always want you to fight the way they know how to teach you how to fight. It's a rare talent at coach that can see what you can do and move around it. It wasn't one of the interesting things to me in coaches is Dwayne Ludwig, because Dwayne Ludwig teaches so different than he ever fought. like he realized like at the end of his career like you know what the best way to fight is the best way to fight is to like give your opponent so many different looks and overload their brain with possibility switching stances to all these different and then he hit he put it all down into a system yeah but if you go back to watch the way dwayne fought Dwayne fought like real standard Dutch kickboxing style. That was his style. He fought a decade and he fought Roman Ducca. Yeah, he did. Well, Ducca laden his career when Ducca's ankles were a complete shot and you know, he's still still. It's awesome.

But you'd also think that how many people can teach you how to fight like sunshine? Yeah. I mean, how many people even can move like that? I don't know. It does weird shit. You know, like he's got that sliding push kick that's like a side kick that he does a lot too. He's like, he like throws it.

Do you think that the guy sent the guy's franchise fighting now or just like a little lower level? Yes. Yeah, so the idea is like everybody knows he's a legend so you can pay him to fight someone great much that they're paying for sunshine's name, you know what I mean?

You know what I mean? No, do you think that like Has he gotten an offer to fight and something like one? Because one is not going to let him fight. It might have done. But guys at the level that he's competing at, right? They would want him to fight. Yeah, I love it.

Yeah, I wonder how much longer he could do it

Oh my god.

Yeah, that's beyond me. Yeah, you know, he certainly has.

Yeah.

That's awesome. Him on Instagram. Yeah. Do you think that like what one is doing is kind of like the future of the sport? Because they're introducing elite level moly tie fighters to the gigantic Asian audience.

They even have, so, grappling competitions. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do, that they've never been. I love that they do, they just do whatever the fuck they want, you know? They, I mean, they've got, you know, really interesting talent.

Well, I certainly saw, um, I don't remember what network it was, but one of the more recent events was on television. Like I was flipping through the cable channels and said, one, fc was like, what? And it was a recent event. It was like right after the event had happened. And then they were airing. Yeah. Well, there they go.

Yeah, it's cool. I mean, they're, they're taking some of the top, you know, top talent from glory as well. A lot of those guys are going on over there.

How do you get kickboxing to be big in America? Why can't they figure that out? Doesn't make any goddamn sense.

What do you mean?

It's a bummer in America. Dana White had a really interesting point. We got ruined in the 1980s with PKK karate. There was some guys that were really exciting, Rick Rufus. But a lot of it was bullshit. It was like boring.

And they weren't that good. They would just throw a couple of kicks and then shitty boxing.

He was good. Superfoot Wallace.

because there's so much great talent. They're like, whenever I watch glory, I mean, I stop and think I'm like, how is this not enormous? Like there's so many boxing fights that are kind of boring. Yeah. And then you watch this and like Jesus Christ is so much more exciting. Exactly.

Because you're taking more shots to the head.

And the reality is, if any elite boxer decided to fight in elite Moetai fighter with Moetai rules, they're getting fucked up. You have a couple seconds to close the distance, Mike Tyson's style, and put that dude away. I was getting like blessed. I mean, I would like to see, I would have loved to see a guy like Mike Tyson in his prime, if there was a guy like Rico or some elite level kickboxer who could

And you could see the right hands go ball, money, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, Yeah, that was like ruined him and then he was flopping execution Yeah, just stepped in and just I was I was thinking like what if someone was going to leak kickbox or would you be able to hold that guy off? Like that one like that the Mike Tyson in his prime when he was storming his way towards the title True good after clinch Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Some guys did manage to make it to the final bell with them. There was some guys that managed to survive. Yeah, Tony's hooker. Yeah, Tony's hooker. Yeah, Tony's hooker. Yeah, Tony's hooker. Yeah, there was a few guys. There was a few guys.

Smith was a powerful dude.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, but Joshua was clearly a better fighter, you know, who's definitely more talented. But what did you think about that Andy Ruiz fight?

So the rumor was that he got in chaos in training. Yeah, I don't have that. I don't have that. I don't have that. I don't have that.

Yeah, no, Andy Ruizu, it's amazing. But if he had been killed in training, if that was the case, then it kind of makes sense.

We're just trying to move our Rewears as how fluid his combinations are.

Yeah, he's his efficiency with his punches. Everything's so fluid and he throws high volumes. I mean, power as well. Whereas Joshua is on the outside. He's a one two big shot guy. It's like, Ruiz is, you know, he's, it's a dangerous combination of two styles because if Ruiz gets in tight, he's gonna land. Yeah. You know, he's gonna land and he's gonna land like a middle way.

I thought Luke looked like he was having fun with them. Yeah. Loma Chancor would be in friendly with each other before the fight. Yeah.

He heard him with some body shots. He really did, you know.

It's interesting also. He dropped him with a jab and that's the same punch that Kovalov dropped yard when he stopped. Yeah, he stopped. Yeah, he stopped. Yeah, he stopped. Yeah, he stopped. Yeah, he stopped. Yeah, he stopped. Yeah, he stopped.

The board had one arm, you know, that's really crazy. I couldn't believe that. Who were talking about on the podcast? I was saying his shoulder was basically half hanging on.

It's very good. Yeah. And the the thing about Loma Chanko that's that's so interesting to me is that his father made him take four years off of boxing just to concentrate on dance training done for his footwork. Like what kind of insight did his father have?

Well, I mean, obviously has a winning formula. I mean, the guys in the shortest amount of time ever has won world titles in three different way classes. I mean, just resulted in it for themselves. And you know, there's, I mean, the argument of who's best pound for pound is always an interesting argument. It's in my eyes. It's him. There's Terrence Crawford. There's a couple other guys that are in the running, but those are the two big ones. Would you agree?

But it's a lighter division in terms of talent wise.

Yeah. That's a hard way to verify. Yeah.

Yeah, we need fight Mikey Garcia Garcia was just a little too small. Yeah, a lot to a small really just really wasn't in wasn't that way class and see Earl Spencer such a Earl's just such a powerful guy and big at that It's a metal light and it's a huge banger man. It's so hard.

Yeah, he's got skill too. I mean, he's very skillful on top of having that great power in size and he's got so many good attributes. The thing about Crawford though is his ability to switch dances. Yeah.

It's almost like he's figuring you out as orthodox just trying to like, you know, like give you a different thing to get accustomed to than all some. Yep. and that he's better as a star.

Only to mean spirit. Hacker was the last guy who was really able to do that. Switched stances as well.

I didn't think he'd lost that fight. I thought how we won that fight.

Yeah. Are you? Yeah. Got to his Instagram. Yeah. Change your mind. Yeah. Oh, well. Realms.

Oh, man. There was a video he posted recently of him when he stopped Floyd May with a senior and like, man, you forget how good sugar Ray was. He was incredible. Yeah, I beat him up, didn't he? But my god, his Instagram's hilarious. He does the most ridiculous workouts. Like, you know, he's older guy, but it's like, you know, we're working hard.

Yeah, he does like ladder workouts like the other one. He's obviously an older guy. Yeah, you could tell, but you know, still active.

Was the second one of those times? Yeah, it stopped me around eight years.

That first fight changed his life. It was such a beating. And the fact that he made it to that final round, he's one of the worst examples ever of a guy being punch drunk. If you listen to melodic Taylor talk, it's so sad. I mean, you cannot understand a word he's saying.

Well Richard Steel was criticized heavily for stopping that fight with like two seconds to go, but he was correct. Yeah. The guy was done.

Does a referee have an obligation to recognize that this fighter can survive and if he does survive, he's probably going to win in decision. He does you have an obligation or if he looks and he says the guy's done, the guy's done. We don't have seconds to go or two seconds. I mean, it's, but for people watching that wanted Melder to win, they're like fuck. But for people wanting Chavez to win, Look, when he dropped him, I mean, it looked like Melger was done. Yeah. You know? And then from that fight on, he was never the same. No, never again. And then when he fought Terry Norris, that was horrific.

Well, Terry's another one, like severely compromised now. Yeah. Like you hear Terry talk now, it's really hard to listen to.

Yes. Or the Orlem was a heavyweight. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Sugar Ray had no business being in there with him. No. But, you know, Terry took his knocks, man. I mean, the really big one. Well, he had quite a few fights where he was hurt, you know, real bad, but Julian Jackson. Won't you? Won't you? Won't you? Won't you? Won't you? Won't you? Won't you? Won't you? Won't you? Won't you? Won't you? Won't you? Won't you? Won't you? Won't you? Won't you? Won't you? Won't you? Won't you? Won't you. Won't you. Won't you? Won't you.

Galovkin hits hard, but it's a volume thing. Julian Jackson would thump you one time in the face and you're all about stiffing up what you got.

Yeah, it's a good one. It's a good one.

And they're weird that you're doing that? Yeah, I'm a weird guy.

Have you find him when you're going to do get a selfie?

He would be so under a wall. He would be so under a wall. He would be so under a wall. He would be so under a wall. He would be so under a wall. He would be so under a wall. He would be so under a wall. He would be so under a wall. He would be so under a wall. He would be so under a wall. He would be so under a wall. He would be so under a wall. Cause I get it the same cause I get it the same cause I get it the same cause I get it doesn't get it's due No it doesn't.

No it doesn't.

It's an interesting situation because he's never discussed when you talk about greatest of all time. Yeah, he's the best British of all well. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. We're old wide. He's not in the conversation. I don't understand why. He did what you're supposed to do. He retired undefeated.

Joe comes I really before it so I had nothing to do with the flying.

Oh, yeah. He did some hypnosis when he was a little kid, which is really weird. Yeah, well, the way he would say that you don't exist, just the task, the task exists. You step into that man and you break his body down and you're like, like, man, you teach that to a 13-year-old. Yeah, that's okay. That it's never experienced any love in his whole life.

It's a good work. Is it good? Did you see? You're shaking your head like you don't like it as a good one.

What you write, what is the difference though? I mean, we all know when people can or can't. I think it's not just with fighting, I think it's with kind of everything that's difficult.

Well, it's also that people are physical limitations. Like, that's one of the reasons why Malonology is so interesting to me because he's clearly got a physical limitation. His body is not the most stout body. He doesn't have the best frame. He doesn't have, you know, he doesn't have the best genetics. He just doesn't.

No, I mean, even he doesn't look like an athlete. No. You know, he's just smart as fuck and figured it out. You know, whereas like yard Jesus Christ, you look at him at the way and you're like, that guy's a fighter. He looks like an African animal. You know, Canelo looks like an athlete.

Yeah, they're with us. Some guys that just aren't physically impressive looking like shoves. No, it's never physically impressive looking. But you break you down. He was such a beautiful fighter to watch because his style, this relentless fucking move forward style ripped the body. He never gave you any air. You didn't have any air.

Yeah, I didn't even know how to hit the fucking speedbag. Really? Yeah, I didn't do any parts. They had him hit the speedbag once it was hilarious. He was going to the speedbag like this is like dick, dick, dick, dick, dick, dick, dick, dick in laughing. Like to his like, no one's heads on a fucking swivel. What did he do? What did he do?

Yeah. Frankie the surgeon Randall.

The rest of his history. Well Randall had that timing, man, with that right hand, really knew how to time it. Yeah, he was, yeah. And he just had his number. And it was also the perfect storm of Chavez, at the end of his rope, you know, long career, like had a lot of wars. And that style was so, how many fights did he have as well? I think he went 87 on being there. But he didn't beat Penel, which it could not be. He didn't beat Penel, which it could not be.

He didn't beat Penel, which No, it was, it was this shit. Yeah, that was horseshit. But now Whitaker was a special talent. Yeah, he was special. He was a fun witness. Oh my god, defensively he was just genius. Well, that whole 1984 Olympic team like holy shit. I mean, think about how good that team was. Van de Holyfield, Penel Whitaker, Melgric Taylor, Mark Breeland, Tyrell Bigg. Yeah. I mean then, what a talented group of people that came out of that Olympic team.

He had that dog in him that dog. Oh yeah. That dog. Well, he was so slick. You know, I mean, that guy was as slick as they come. Who is here by a fucking car?

Was he hammering?

Yeah, there's only a few guys that were capable of humiliating you, like he was. Him and Roy, Roy was here. Roy Jones, when it was primed, when he was, when he was, when he was, when he was, when it was primed, when it was primed, when it was primed, when it was primed, when it was primed, when it was primed, when it was primed, when it was primed, when it was primed, when it was primed, when it was primed, when it was primed, when it was primed, when it was primed, when it was primed, when it was primed, when it was primed, when it was primed, when it was primed, when it was primed, when it was primed, when it was primed, when it was primed, when it was primed, when it was primed, when it was primed, when it was primed, when it was primed, when it was Which isn't saying and because he was finding a world champion Yeah, but he was from an aggressive like that.

Yeah, 55 54.

How was he gonna fight? I've heard Sakiel Bika

I can't remember him because how old? Don't know.

Is there any, see if this footage of Nigel Ben training recently? Like, I wanted to know what his body looks like. 55, man. He's in shape though, but I mean, but you remember that fight with Jeremiah McClump? Way back in the day, back when he used to have the dreads. Yeah. And that was, that was like the defining fight where people realized like, oh, God, a guy who's the elite of the elite, like, I'm terrified of him.

Well, he certainly needed it in that fight.

Yeah, could have easily been stopped. My clown was a murderer. He was my murderer. Is this day one back? Posted this on his Instagram. Let's see. Oh, shit. He looks fucking great.

Well, he looks fucking great in like, when you watch a little drill punches. He's shooting me like a hat on on parts. Look at the speed man, a 55. That's crazy.

It's not been them shots, which I'm looking like he did you to piss into this cups. So yeah.

Yeah, I don't watch it. Coming from someone who's on TRT and buying it. That's amazing, man. That really is another video of him. Let me see here. There's a lot of work on some combinations here. But I mean, it don't look bad at all. Like if someone told you that guy was 30, yeah. Someone told you that guy was 30, you'd be buying it. Yeah. I mean, that's crazy that he's able to maintain that speed.

55 is old, though, man. That's fucking old.

The only thing that I would think is, well, one thing going forms that he did not fight for a long ass time. You know, I want to see what he looks like without shirt on, too. That's only gay. But that's not. I'm just, uh, purely as a person that analyzes athlete.

Right. And how much do you recover when you get hit is what I'm right back? I mean, he last fought. I want to say 15 years ago. How long has it been?

That certainly helps. Yep. But what I'm seeing there that's so shocking is his speed. Yeah. That at 55 he's still got that kind of speed.

It's called Meiko, I know. I mean, you're not. I'm a little confused though when he says he eats whatever he wants. He's not following a good diet. Like, I would imagine that if you're gonna be like Bernard Hopkins, late in his career, like he was an anomaly, but you attributed to his discipline. Yeah. When you know if the life lasts, like anyone else. And he has to go side.

You know, it's just, it's so weird to see a guy come back at 55. It's so confusing.

I mean, but obviously he can still crack. Yeah. You know, there's, he probably's like, I can think of anything to do this.

You can see the wheels spinning around here. Yeah, why? I can't wait to look at him. Who's the like the oldest ever guy who came back in more time?

You saw the steep A DC fight, steeped me out. Yes. When was the last time you saw that many beautiful left hooks landed to the body in the name of the body.

Just but so short, too. You know, it was no like wind up and craziness. It was just. Yeah, just digging in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, He's a great guy. He's a beautiful person. But for me, there was also a part of me that was very happy for Steve Bay because Steve Bay was denied. Like they weren't even talking about him fighting again for the title. He was the fucking most successful UFC heavyweight champion ever. Four times defended or four victories in title fights. One of the fight against Fabricio verdume, KO'd him in Brazil, won the title, then defend the title three times. So we won four world championship bouts. Nobody had ever done that before in the heavyweight division because it's such a crazy division. So he's easy to get knocked out. And then he goes and loses and then no one's talking about a rematch. Like how were you not talking about a rematch? They were talking about him fighting Brock Lesnar. Like I know there's a lot of money in Brock Lesard fighting, but get the fucking right to the title. When this guy defended the title three times. He was the man and then he proved that that was the case and he comes back and beats DC in the rematch. So good for him to get that shot and then to capitalize on it and he's a greatest heavyweight of all time.

Is there any chance? No, you're fucking quiet. No. It's fucking huge.

You walk through it, though, you didn't even smoke it.

The kickbox, it's just gone down. Yeah, that's right.

Yeah.

going down certain areas because he states we're like gonna kill this longest long story people want to watch it it's good and I told him about that and then did some work with him and stuff like that and it's such a nice guy he's a great guy and you know him going over to one FC was a gigantic deal you know you form UFC champion in his prime heads over to one FC after a win streak in the UFC but that Timothy Nosti you can guy is no fucking joke I was super impressed with him. How many guys like that are out there that the general public maybe is not aware of but their elite world is a lot on that one roster as well.

That's what's going over there. Yeah. Because you're going over there, like if you're a guy from the UFC, if you say, literally, if you're a economist, Gregor or someone like that, and you're a world champion, you're known throughout the land, everybody knows you. Guess what? They might have somebody over there that can fucking make you. Yeah, maybe a percent. There's a so many of them. Bad ass Russians. Yep.

He's a great guy. And that style that he has, like, holy shit. I think there's ever been more of a blood and guts fight, you know? And the fact that he was able to persevere against just engaging. Yeah. And that fucking crazy war, holy shit. Yeah. That kid is hilarious to watch. Yeah. And the best way he should be. Cowboys, cowboys, cowboys, cowboys, cowboys. Fuck that kid's violent. Yeah.

Oh, God. No, Gregor.

Look, he might get knocked a fuck out. No, that would ruin everything. I think a fight versus gay, she would be the fight to make, right? There's two big fights to make in the lightweight division. It's just in gay, she versus Connor McGregor, which is huge. And then it's Nirmagomedov versus Tony first. That's the fucking fight. That's number one. If I had to give all my blessings to the gods, like for one, I said, yes. Nirmagomedov and Tony Ferguson, please.

You mean Tony Ferguson?

No, he didn't fight lettuce. No, Tony Ferguson fought lettuce and then could be for Dustin Porter.

I think the plan is Tony Ferguson and then George St. Pierre. Big big big big big big. Big money. Yeah, I mean, that's the biggest money of all time. Wait, what do you fight? I don't know. I don't know. I don't think he can get to 55.

George is smart as fuck. He's so intelligent. Yeah.

If he thinks he can do it, he can do it. I mean, he wouldn't even be considering it if he didn't. And, you know, he's also training with Kevin Lee now. Kevin Lee's up there training at 155. And, you know, he's decided to go back down to 155. I suppose Kevin Lee's a nice guy. He's a great guy.

He's a great guy. He's a great guy. He's a great guy. But I think, If anything trips him up at all, it's like he has this belief that he's the best and that belief doesn't get shaken by losses, but it also doesn't seem like he makes the proper adjustments. That's why I recommend that he goes across a hobby. I'm like, listen, man, if there's ever a guy who could put, I'm still thinking he could be a world champion. I really do. I think for us, the hobby is the guy to really hone his skills properly because who did he bring to the world title? Jorsan Pierre. Who does Kevin Lee fight like? Jorsan Pierre. If there's one guy he fights like, he's unpredictable whether the attack is going to be striking or wrestling, mixes it up beautifully, who does that better than Jorsan Pierre? Nobody. He's the best ever at it. Kevin Lee does that style.

He'd really, well, this being how a bunch of he had issues going into that fight. He had a real problem with his ribs. Like he was in the bathroom about to shoot lighter cane into his rib cage. Really? And he was going to have his doctor in face time. And he just decided like the problem was if he fucked up the injection he could attempt a puncture is lung. And if he punctures lung he was like fuck, what am I doing? So he decided not to do it, but he in the bathroom had his fucking detox about it. How does doctor on face time? And he was going to like lie to cane his ribs. So he's decides not to do that. And he also the reality is he had one eye. This is right, I guess. Fuck yeah, blind. He can't see anything. And George knew it. So George stepped to that side and that's where he caught him with that left hook and blindsided. Yeah, and literally blindsided. Yeah. I mean, look, Bisping is his top as a fucking human being has ever been. Yeah. He is a warrior. But by that time, he got to that fight. Goddamn that guy had been through the ringer. Yeah.

Yeah. And he got that through mental toughness. Yeah. He's as mentally tough as any fucking human being.

Anyways, the next round. Yep, there you go. Yeah. I mean, Silver walked away like it was a KO. You know, and really it was a kind of a cheap shot because his mouth piece was out. And he was saying, hey, put my fucking mouth piece, I was separated. And then Silver's like, check this out.

Mike, there's been flying knees in MMA is like when one lands, you know, you're you're seeing guys land them now like the Mazvidal fight with an aspirin to the best example of all time like God damn that but in Moitai that is so rare

Yeah, there's just so in MMA it's like you never know if a guy's gonna shoot and we have wrestlers that that desire to go and dive on your legs and then boom you get caught with that flying.

Fuckin' five seconds. But, you know, when you realize that he planned for that and that he actually set it up by moving to his right to force Ben to definitely lead with that left leg forward, I mean, he really went to that side and then came out. So Ben's instinct, he couldn't avoid it. It's like, that's his thing is to get a hold of you and like, here it's right on. Then he comes right up the middle. It's just out.

I had to go in the morning and all the shit talking that went on before that fight that was it just a devastating loss Yeah, yeah, yeah, and he's coming back really quickly against Damian Maya and that's an interesting fight because Damian Maya is a fucking straggler. Yeah, okay. I was well, right?

He was out on his leg. He was not bad. So they have him fight just four months later. It's like, hmmm, brave. Yeah. And maybe not, I mean, what if Demi and my decides to stand at Bang with them? I mean, if anybody, look, Demi and my can take you out with his hands, no doubt about it. And if anybody is capable of stuffing take downs or reversing position as a grappler, Demi and my is a spectacular grappler. Yeah. Yeah, true.

That's it.

Oh, it's on the fight night. Oh, so it's the main event. Is the main event in the fight card? Yes. Oh, it's interesting Singapore. Oh, okay. Really.

Well, he got knocked out by Mazda. That was shocking. Yeah. And the way shot Moss would all did it. Again, he's so is a fight IQ is so high. He's so clever at figuring out how far he's trying to make him into us. Yeah, it's got a damn. That's going to stick fight. If he stops Diaz, then there can be nothing next except got to it has to be. It has to be. But I'm just very disturbed by this whole cold-be-covering situation because I guess, you know, he just feels like they're given a machete deal and then they're trying to set up someone else to fight Usman next and he's very upset. First of all, he's got a real grief, a real grievance because they took his title away. He won the interim title and they took it away because he wasn't willing to fight immediately afterwards and he's like, look, I need time. I thought five rounds of fucking war. Then he comes back and looks incredible against Robbie Lawler. So like, we'll surely now he's gonna get the next title fight. And they offered it to him, but they offered it to him as a challenger with like challenger money. He's like, hey, I'm the fucking interim champion. I've won lost in the UFC. It was a loss early on in my career. I fought injured and lost. Like this is, this is, I've proven myself. And he's also puts people fucking hate that guy, right? But that's your design. I mean, he puts, he puts asses and seats and he puts eyeballs on the screen.

Like Floyd? Like Floyd? Exactly. I mean, with Floyd, did that so smart as talk shit, show you his money, and everyone's like, oh, I'm pretty sure I can't see him get sparked. Yeah, and you can't even hit him.

Well, there's also these, there was moments like my Donna when he clipped him at the end of that one round. Yeah, and then when my Donna fought him in the rematch, he couldn't even come close.

Yeah, my Diana's apparently coming back again.

Yeah, I rock but gas here.

Well, that kind of lifestyle when you only have like one chunk of money and it's just sitting there and you're chewing through that. Yeah. Every day, buying Rolexes and Cuban cigars. Next thing you like like, hey, bro. You got about a hundred grand last time.

No, you got his Instagram. She knew my Donna. It's from March. It's not recent at all. Oh, really? It's a picture of me. Good. That's his last Instagram post.

So that said, huh? Go to let me see what's going on before that. March is a long ass time. Let me see that. That's what I want to see before that. But I want to see him hit. He looks thin there though. That's that's my Donna looking so much better than he looked. I mean a year ago he was fast.

Damn. He looks good.

Well, who knows, man? Who knows? It's hard. It's, you mean, when you're out for so long to decide you're a warrior again, and you're, you know, back to being a professional athlete again, like the commitment is so significant. It looks like the go before that. It's not that one. That right there. Look at that fat face. Yeah. That face. He's so fat.

Look at that. That's what he's doing. Yeah, pimping, smoking, smoking, drinking. Yeah. But I mean, how much money do you need to make on those void fights? Yeah, maybe 20.

Yeah.

Yeah. That guy is so interesting because he had so much potential. But for whatever reason, he's just stepped on his dick some times.

Yeah, I think he's... Look at him, there he was.

Wow, you got pretty goddamn slam. You got close. But where is he doing now? Does it doesn't say that? Stacks of cash, cheese sticks.

and both his whole like flashy lifestyle.

Well, I think that was his style, was that film show. Yeah, that film show. Yeah, that film show. Yeah, that film show. Yeah, that film show. Yeah, that film show.

Yeah, that film show. Yeah, that film show. Yeah, that film show. Yeah, that film show. Yeah, that film show. Yeah, that film show. Yeah, that film show. Yeah, that film show. Yeah, that film show.

Yeah, that film show.

Vinny, what is like when you work with so many different people and there's so many different psychological issues that fighters deal with? What do you think is like one of the primary causes? One of the primary things, the psychological missteps that fighters make that you maybe could help them correct?

You know, connected into the future as you're ultimately who you are, that defines you.

Yeah, it's it'll be out release when this comes out Let me know so like send people there, but yes, please the idea behind it is You can't just do it in one session right you need a bunch of it's like mental training.

But I'm not. I mean even for them. Yeah it can be great to lose because it can give you a work or call. Yeah. And so many fighters have done their best work after they've lost and made adjustments.

Traidie Mouse is a great example. When Mighty Mouse, well, he beat Ian McCall, but honestly, that is a real questionable decision. Ian was beating the fuck out of him. Ian had his back and he's pounding him in the head. I mean, it was definitely his worst performance or one of his worst performances. Yeah. And then from then on Mighty Mouse and Matt Hume had a conversation like, hey, you can't just fucking have asked this anymore. Yeah, you got to be all in and he became all in and then became the best out. Yeah, I mean, he's great as well. Yeah, he's amazing, but he got tested in that first fight by a guy that you know one in America again that they're all over that are waiting them guys Well, there are always like waiting, right? Like all these people, look, you think about how talent arises, right? When you get to be an Anderson Silva, when you step into the UFC and fight Rich Franklin, he's the champion, a lot of people didn't know Anderson Silva was, unless you follow them outside the US and you go, holy fucking shit is this guy good, this could be great. If you saw his cage wars fights, like, oh my god, like he was incredible. If you saw his fights in pride, like Jesus Christ, he was amazing. He was amazing. I mean, Anderson before he got to the UFC, I was letting everybody know, bet the house on this guy. Because this is, he's on a completely different level, but there's a million of those guys on the other. There's so many of those guys out there in these other countries that no one's seen. They don't get it any press, but they've been lighting people up in these amateur competitions and in small, on the small circuit. And then, by the way, if it had a chance, just to, like, Timothy Naziukin. People didn't know we were. You see that guy like Jesus Christ. I like that guy against a lot of people. Yeah. He's fucking good. And that's also the thing about the no weight cuts at one FC that makes things very interesting.

And you will spot 154. What kind of hydration test do they give you guys to make sure that you're not cutting away?

Do they test your body to make sure that you're not cutting any water?

So they'll know that you're dehydrated. Yeah, so your weight is not representative of your actual weight of your health. Yeah, yeah, basically. So by me making you do it several times, they're saying like this, we know what you are.

Why doesn't everybody do that? Because it's the grossest thing in fighting is the wake-up. Yeah. Because it puts guys through horrendous internal damage. Yeah.

Yeah.

Both grappling and such a giant advantage. Yeah. Exactly. If you're going to lay on someone and So big, such a huge advantage. If you can actually regain your strength and because of the real experts, like George Lockhart, guys are really good at getting eyes, and we hydrated, and weighing you in, sucking all that water out of your body, and then putting it back to science. And if you understand that science. But it's just, to me, it's the most heartbreaking part of MMA. So watch those guys like, well, they're face sucks. They can barely stand on the scale.

That's great. I just think that's the smartest way to go. I really wish everybody would do that. I mean, I think it's legal cheating. Yeah.

Venia, are you seeing a rise in people that take this mental training seriously and take things like mindset training seriously?

Yeah.

My pleasure. Thank you, brother. And thank you for hypnotizing me. I know it's real.

Well, I tried it with respect, and I treated it with full attention, and I didn't go into it skeptically. I went into it with an open mind, you know, and it's real. It's like, it's a, I tried to explain the state of mind that you achieve when you're hypnotized. It's very hard to describe, you know, without experiencing it because it's different than any other state of mind that I've ever had, but you are awake. That's the other thing that wears people out. They think, oh, you're in another, what you're in dreamland. He's going to take your pants off.

When you say linguistics, you mean by using special words and combinations.

But okay, but what do you mean? When you're saying linguistics, you mean like people using like negative language that they need to stop.

When you keep seeing linguistically, like you mean example, like why do you?

Hmm, interesting. What did you experience when you first started doing it?

And what was the difference? What was the adjustment?

you can forget it and you know and well mindset is so important to anything that's difficult like you you go into it with like a wishy-washy mindset and you're not going to have your ultimate performance at the best performance look at baby gulgin for me yeah yeah you know that's all that's where he's going and that's where he's going and that's where he's going and that's where he's going and that's where he's going and that's where he's going and that's where he's going and that's where he's going and that's where he's going and that's where he's going and that's where he's going and that's where he's going and that's where he's going and that's where he's going and that's where he's going Because he realized that like he's he's saying these gems of wisdom, but he's actually doing it. Yeah, you know, he's doing it. He's not just some there's a lot of these motivational speaker guys out there that can go fuck themselves because all they're doing is like giving you motivational speaking, but they're not doing it. He's up there doing it in front of the camera.

He's doing it. Yeah, I mean, he's telling you stories about like mental toughness while he's running. There's something undeniably effective about that.

And this book is excellent, man. Yeah.

Fuck. The audio books even better than the book because you get to hear him talking about each individual chapter, like on these unreal stories in between the chapters. Like the book is great. The audio book is better.

It's like a woman I earn. It's like 21,000. But it's just important to know that there are people like that out there that are gonna take it to the top level of human physical potential. You know, and that's what he's doing. And there's a lot of those guys out there, like my friend Cam Haynes, like the Courtney Doe Walter. There's people that can do shit that like you have this idea of like physical limitations. Everybody does.

Well, to me too, man, I'm very fortunate that I have this platform and these guys are willing to come and tell us about these things because it's just, you could learn so much that just was not available to us when we were kids. It didn't exist. There was no outlet like we have now podcast.

I'm thankful to them. I'm thankful to you guys, too. Enjoy this conversation. Thank you so much. We did it. All right. Thank you, gentlemen. Anything to say anything? Plugs? Anything?

Yes. Yeah, the mindset. So what's the URL going to be and when's it going to be?

That's going to be available when the show is finished. Right at the end?

Beautiful. Thank you gentlemen. Thank you so much.

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