Transcript for #1956 - Luke Combs

Yeah, I try. I mean, I really do. You know, once you never know, a lot of, a lot of, I don't know, you know, I guess you always have doubts. I mean, that comes with, you know, at least I do.

Constantly like, is this good enough for is it country enough for is it? I don't know. It's just always. I'd be lying if I said I didn't have.

You have to be. You have to. I mean, or else you're just, you know, my biggest fear is like making the same record at 100 times, you know.

Yeah, everything's way different with him. Yeah, I remember turtles all the way down coming out and I was like man this is just such a departure from the last name yeah and I can be scary as an artist too because you're like well all my fans that I have were the fan of this previous thing right yeah the new thing alienate those people It's just tough, man. It's weird.

No doubt. And I mean, I think that comes with the artist now has the power in a lot of ways, right? With the rise of the internet. Yes. I think I was really kind of one of the first people who was able to bring something to like when I got my first deal, it was like, well, I already had a built-in fan base. And that wasn't really ever happening at that time. Like, as I was on this social media app called Vine, do you remember that? Yeah. And it was like, I mean, I wasn't like, you know, mega big on there or anything. But I had enough, enough fans, I guess where I was selling music. And I didn't realize that that was weird. I got to Nashville and they're like, wait, you're selling how much? And I'm like, oh, I thought that was that's low, right? And I'm not really, it's not really that low at all. And I was like, oh, that's cool, you know? So then you got some negotiating power, too.

Yeah, I would say me and came Brown probably were like the first two and we both got signed at Sony and I think that's to credit to, you know, I mean Randy Goodman who still runs Sony Nashville has always been forward thinking in that. Like at least before in my opinion, all the other labels in Nashville were thinking about that stuff. He was always thinking about what's the next thing or like how do we stay ahead of the trend or whatever and other labels weren't doing that at that time.

It just made sense, right? It was like, okay, this is a tool. And all I was doing on there was, I mean, the content on that app was six seconds long. Right. It was like, it was like TikTok, but six seconds. Right. And so it was like, you would have to pick out what's the most impactful section. of a George Straits song or of a well-in-gitting song or anything I can sing or of something that's on the radio, a Libri song or whatever it was and it was what's the singingest as part of the song and I would get on there and just sing that six seconds of on my guitar and then put it on there and people were sharing and sharing and then when I put my own music out I'm like Well, obviously, I'm going to market to these people that are already like my voice and stuff and it just worked out. That was, it was never a master plan. Right. You know, I wasn't like, I would love to say, man, I had this big scheme and I had it all planned out. It just like, it was this little, these like logical steps that just made sense to me.

Yeah, it was always tells, I mean, there is so much lock involved. No doubt. I mean, anybody that has success. Obviously, you have to be able to sing and you have to have songs that people like, right? Those things are, you know, that's a given. But there's a lot of people that I know in town that I would argue are a lot more talented than me. Singers, songwriters, that went for the artist thing and it was just, it wasn't the right time. Are their music didn't connect at that time with whatever the mainstream kind of fan base was. And now they're just, they're just songwriters instead. because it now they're they might be 40 something you know and they're like well I don't know I'm not gonna get a deal and going to radio to work at three kids you know make you know half main dollars a year right in songs right yeah but that would suck yeah listen to somebody else belt not your hits yeah but there's also a contingency of guys that like like I have some friends that went the route like they had the deal, they had the songs, it wasn't the right time, but then the artist thing just wasn't for them either. Like going around and doing PR stuff, like that gave them anxiety, having fans, that gave them anxiety. And that's like I think there's people that lean more into, they would rather just do the creative stuff. And hope, okay, I hope I can, you know, write, I hope you dance for Leon Womack instead of being Leon Womack and singing, I hope you dance.

Yeah. It's even crazier like, like, the place that always gets me is like, when someone's listening to it on a boat. To me, that's the ultimate test. of a song. It's like, if somebody's listening on a boat dude, they love you. They absolutely love your shit. If it's so true, that's so true. You want to mean? Right. I mean, how many artists that you listen to in your car, you probably wouldn't listen to on a boat? It's a different thing, right? Like to me, it's like if it's summer, the weather's nice, the drinks are falling, you know, and that dude, you're songs on the boat. That's the soundtrack to like the best time that someone could possibly be having.

You know, that's so true. You're the highlight of their weekend or their summer. That song is like a huge part of their life if they're playing it on them.

Is it like new Kanye or is it old-con? She likes all of it. All of it. Yeah. I like to, I love the old stuff. I can't say I'm jamming the, the ye stuff or I can't say I'm just, to me, the course is his course is in the beginning or just incredible. Incredible. Incredible. Yeah. You know, incredible.

Man, that must be nice.

That'd be cool. Yeah.

I just went to BAMP last week for the first time. Have you ever been there? No. Dude, it's like even more Montana, Montana. Really? How could it be? It's hard to explain, man. I mean, it's just so, so like we had me and my wife flew into Calgary. This is the closest you can get is Calgary. Even flying private. That's just you can get.

No, it's they're both in Canada. Both in Canada. So you go Calgary and it's an hour and a half drive to Banff. But it is like the sickest drive. Like 20 minutes out of Calgary, it turns into like the most Rocky Mountain thing you've ever seen. And it's, I mean, it's out of control, man. I mean, I'd never seen anything like it. We stayed in this hotel that was like built in 1889 up there. I'm like, it's hard for me to get there now. What was it like in 1889 to try to get there? What's it made out? It's made out of a lot. It's stone. Whoa. Yeah. So I'm like, how do you even get the, there's a railway that goes through there. But I imagine like, Yes, it's called the Fairmont.

Yeah. Well, so I grew up in Asheville and I always think about the built more house. Hmm. Have you ever been to the built more house? I've been to Asheville. I've never, I don't know if I've seen the built more house. This place is staggering dude. I mean, it is like, You can't even. So if you sit on to kind of sits on this hill, right? So the Vanderbilt's built it. So it was the largest. Yeah, largest in Nashville. Mm-hmm. Holy shit. So if you stand on top of that building, they owned everything you can see from the top of that building, which is like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of acres. I mean, it is unbelievable. It was the largest residence private residence in the United States for a long, long, long, long time. Um, they have the chest set in there that Napoleon's heart was put on after he died. Just crazy.

I don't know. I can't attest to that. I can't attest to that. But I used to go, I mean, I've been in that place four or five times. I mean, and it's just staggering. These stay there, can you say that? No, I can't stay there. It's a tours.

But they have a hotel on property, but it's not. You don't stay in there. They had a swimming pool, bowling alleys. I mean, it was like decked out. The biggest mansion you've ever seen, but it was built in. I can't attest to the date that that one was built in, but 1800s no doubt.

You know, I don't know so they have they built a whole town around it, right? It's called built more village. Um, and I actually sang in a choir at the All Souls Cathedral there in high school, which was built by the Vanderbilt as well. And so it's like super old Episcuits at Episcopalian Church. Look at that fucking place. Dude, it is. It's, I mean, everything's marble dude. I mean, it's, can you imagine living there in the 1800s? What that was like?

Yeah. Dude, they imported, and I use someone's definitely going to fact check me on this. But I believe they imported everything from overseas on this whole place, the marble, the stone.

Wow. 250 rooms, dude, in that place.

Yeah, you should, you should, if you're ever in Asheville, you gotta go toward that place, man. It's unbelievable.

That's very Asheville. And it's funny growing up in Asheville, like I heard about that.

What's like why mess with it, right?

Yeah, let them do what they're one. They're one. Yeah, let them do what they're going to do. Yeah, I'm going to agree.

It is. I moved there. Me and my parents moved there when I was eight from Charlotte. I was born in Charlotte. and move there and we live there. I mean, I went to Appalachian State University. Oh, wow. I don't have a way for Nashville. My parents actually just moved two months ago to Nashville because we had, you know, I just had my first son. And so they wanted to be close to the grandkids and it was wild as like they didn't want to. They wanted to move, but they were really torn because they've loved that. We've been in that same house since I was eight, you know. and toast tough. I mean, we still have the house at the moment and stuff trying to figure out like if we want to keep it or, you know, sell it as I don't know. It's a weird stuff, you know.

Yeah, my dad, you know, my dad's 69 and his two best friends living in Asheville and, you know, they drank beer every Friday and for 25 years, you know, and it's like, he moved to Nashville and so he doesn't know anybody. I don't know when it's like, So I think he struggles with that a lot, which I, you know, is tough for me too, because I don't want him to like not be living his best life either. You know, I mean, it's like, I love that he's close to, you know, my son and my son's close to this grandparents, but I also want them to like enjoy there. Enjoy their life, too, right? Tells friends to move. I know, right? That's what you got to do. Yeah. Get them to move the Nashville.

Yeah. It's a dude. Nashville is like, it's a hot, hot market. It is.

Yeah. That's a little less stringent. You know, an actual is a good place, man. But it is. It's a great place. It's changed a lot. even since I've been there, I don't want to act like I've been there, you know, 30 years, you know, because I'm probably considered a new Nash villain in my salon. Um, so maybe they're in 2014, so nine years. So not that long. Yeah, I think you need like 10 years. Yeah, for you can start talking to you before you can be like, yeah, it's changed.

I'm that Nashville guy. I'm like, yeah, you used to just be so, so different.

I do it makes them feel like, I feel like it's almost like if you're saying that you're taking ownership that that's your home. Whether you've been there five years or 50 years, when you say things like that, it really shows that you feel some sort of ownership to that place. Yeah, that's the place that you want to be or you feel like it's home. So maybe it's a good thing, you know?

Yeah, I mean, I can imagine, you know, some of the, some of the guys that, you know, I love listening to you that, you know, we're in Nashville in the 60s and 70s, like, what would they think of it now?

There's like two sex of it, right? Like there's, there is still a very gritty scene and there always has been, right? So you've got, you know, you've got like black keys type kind of thing, you know, going on in East Nashville. like there's so many bands that have come out of East Nashville that are not part of kind of the mainstream Nashville thing and that community still really exists and a lot of I think artists country artists that people love that would kind of even two or three years ago have been considered like Americana like that turn I'm not even sure what that means right like to me that's just like Country music that you know there's all these people on the internet they're like well you ain't you know look home seeing a real country singer you don't I mean cuz he not you don't I mean cuz that's not Sergio Simpson or whatever it is right like there's always these people who are trying to discredit you But there's these definitely these two different sects of like mainstream and non mainstream that exist and there's people that are trying to chase kind of those those things separately and sometimes when popularity on the not chasing that goes through the roof then it kind of can transition into the major labels are like well maybe you know we should sniff around the sky You know, and I was always I didn't move the Nashville till like be necessarily be like I'm gonna be a country artist. I just wanted to do music for 11 in any way, right? Like I worked, you know, bunch of jobs in high school and college and And I, you know, I went to college for five years, didn't graduate, which I'm sure my parents loved. You know, I was 21 hours away from getting my degree. And I was like, I'm gonna do music, you know, and it was whatever that was. Sweep and floors in a studio would have been great to me. because I would be around music, I'd be trying to write music. I mean, realistically, I thought to myself, especially at the time I moved to town, it's like, dude, everybody that was doing music when I moved to town was hot, dude. Six, five, abs, dude. I mean, I didn't have a chance, bro. Yeah, I didn't have a chance. And so I'm going, well, cool, I'll just write songs for these handsome cats. I'll be following me, you know? But I just, I really, like again, back to the luck thing. And like I stumbled into it at the right time. I think Chris Stapleton sing in Tennessee whiskey with Justin Timberlake at the CMAs. It was a, a earth shattering moment for country music. and that opened the door up for guys like myself to pursue a career like somebody who didn't look like every other guy in town. And everyone knew about Chris Stapleton in town. That guy was a legend in town. I'd been there for 12, 13, 14 something years at that time. He had 250 cuts as a songwriter when that performance happened. Wow. So it was just no one gave him a chance because he was a husky guy with a beard. Yeah. He's unbelievable. That national anthem with the Super World dude. That was amazing. It's that and Whitney Houston, two best national anthem's ever in my opinion. Super Bowl ever. He's got some fucking bangers like that. I was sitting in a box with a Dell at the Super Bowl and he sang that thing and she was watching and like two lines and she just goes holy shit. Like, she's just was losing her mind.

When Nick Seriani cries in this thing, I felt like a bald eagle was gonna fly over the stadium. It was the most American thing I've ever seen in my entire life. Look at him.

That was a lecturing dude. I can't even explain to you what being there in person was like for that. Wow. It was unbelievable, man. But I'm here when Siri and I came on on the big, jumbo screen in there with the tears coming down. I was like, this is like, this doesn't ever be a moment like this again. Like, I'll never be present for a moment like that again. And like felt the gravity of it in the moment, too. It wasn't just like when you saw it on TV, it was cool, you know. It was like they were showing that same feed in the stadium and it was that like even more imp. I'd never been to the Super Bowl before. So it was like, I was already soaking it in, you know. Right.

Yeah, it was unreal, man. It really was. That guy's an incredible, generational talent. No doubt. I mean, just no doubt about it.

I mean, honestly, wasn't till I was so I'm 33. It was when I was 22 probably. Yeah. It was when I was really like I could do this.

Yeah, it was beyond the hobby for me, but I didn't even realize that. You know, so I would so in sixth grade, right? So I'll paint the kind of how these things happen. It's like in sixth grade, the first year of middle school, right? What they did in my middle school was it was like these six week grading periods. And so in the first year of middle school, they made you take every elective. So you would take gym class for six weeks and chorus for six weeks and band for six weeks. Actually, I think you got to choose chorus or band. But you had to do one music and then you took art and you took home back. And so during that sixth grade year, you try out every elective they have in the school. And then seventh grade, you pick what elective you want to take for like, so you get one elective per semester. So you could have two electives in your seventh grade year. So there was an option for chorus that was a one semester of chorus or you could try out for like the advanced chorus which would be both semesters. So I liked chorus a lot and so I was like, well, I'll do, I'll do the one semester chorus and then I'll do gym or whatever, you know, because like I like it, but I don't want to take it that serious, right? So I do my first semester in chorus and my teacher, Ms. Raver. She comes up to me like last week of school and she's like, we please change your elective and be in advance chorus with me. And I was like, yeah, I mean, if you really want me to like, I liked it a lot. And I was like, man, I wish I could do that in gym or whatever, you know. And so I did, I switched it. And so from seventh grade until I graduated high school, I was in chorus class every day of school for six years, you know. And then I got to high school. I get to high school. My course teacher Miss Bryant was like, I mean, she was like my mom at school. She was like my school mom. Me and her became super tight. I mean, I was her teacher assistant. My senior year, I was in her class, a fourth of my entire high school career was spent in her classroom. And I was in every musical every year. So after school for half the year, I was doing the musical. And I just liked it. And I didn't realize I was even any good until like ninth grade when Miss Bryant was like, hey, you're like, You're, like, good.

And I was like, oh, cool, what? That's nice, you know, and because I like doing this, that's fun. And remember, I was transitioning to go to college and she said, I asked her, hey, should I do music in college? You know, and I remember her telling me, don't do music in college. If you can see yourself doing anything else. So if you can imagine yourself doing anything else, other than music, you shouldn't pursue music in college. So in my brain, I'm thinking, okay, well, I only thought the only option was to be a music teacher. In my head, I'm going, well, that's the only option is to be a music teacher. And I don't want to be a music teacher because I'm really bad. I can't read music. I can't do math. I have some sort of, I just can't read music. Not at all and like I like it's I've probably some sort of form of like dyslexia probably to the truest extent like barely past math and I tried to read. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I was in so her so her husband was actually the man teacher. He taught advanced placement music theory which was a new class my senior year. I took that class and got like a D because it was like all these the kids that were the best at band in the best at chorus where he was in that close only like eight students in the class and it all it is was advanced like here's the notes here's this i tried out for all state chorus three years in high school and didn't make it because you had to be able to read you had to do a sight singing audition which is where they would hand you a piece of sheet music and you had to sing it just by reading the notes on there, right? So it was a combination of what your voice sounded like, and your ability to keep up with the all-state choir teacher, whoever that was picked out to be, and I never made it because I couldn't read the music. I just couldn't do it. I don't know why you get coaching on it. Did you get the... Yeah, I mean, I tried. I mean, I busted to try to... It's just something about it doesn't make sense to me. Like, to my brain. Like, I get it. Like, if I sit there and like, Plank it out really, really slow. I mean, I could figure it out, right? But it just doesn't. It's just such to me, it's such an instinctual thing. You know, and so I was in an Occupella group, my freshman year at college for a year. Um, I enjoyed that, but again, it was just like an after school kind of activity thing with other people in college, you know, excuse to have people to drink with, really, you know, people with common ground or whatever. And gave that up my beginning of my sophomore year, really. Um, and then didn't do music. I played rugby. I got into playing rugby in college. I did that, loved that. And I was just a guy that would like sing at parties or whatever. Like my buddies that played rugby with knew I sang. Hey, but I do sing for these chicks or whatever. You know, it was kind of like, I was like party trick guy. You know, and then after my junior, I moved home to Asheville and I, I'd always moved home every summer up to that point. And then my mom goes, because I was sulking because all my buddies that year, they all stayed in their college town for the summer. I was the only guy that moved back. So all my friends are gone, they're in Raleigh, they're in Charlotte, they're in Chapel Hill, they're in Boone, they're in, you know, Callaway, and all these different schools. So I'm working at the same job I have in a 16 at a go-kart place with a bunch of high school kids. I'm 21 years old. I got nobody to hang out with. I'm living in my parents house. I'm not doing well in school. I don't know what I want to do with my life at all. And I'm sitting on the porch. I remember sitting on my parents' carport. And it was like, my mom come out. And she was like, what's wrong with you? Like, what's, what's, what's, what's, what's going on? And I was like, I don't know, Mom, I was like, oh, I mean friends here. Like, I'm working, I'm fucking go cards. You know, like, what am I doing? And she's like, well, you know, you know what? Luke, can you chasney and Tim or girl? They didn't even wanted to play guitar to labor 21 years old. And I was 21, right? And so my parents had bought me a guitar in seventh grade that I never played. I did two guitar lessons and hated it because my parents wanted me to do it. You know what I mean? Like anything your parents want you to do. You don't want to do really. And so I went in the closet and I got this old, like, I've been as like $50 acoustic guitar, you know, just horrendous condition. But I didn't know that. Didn't know anything about guitar. Didn't know what a good guitar was. Didn't know nice guitars even existed. So I taught myself all summer. I just sat on the porch when I wasn't at work. Play and play and play and play and because I knew I love to sing. And I was like, well, I'll just learn how to play. And then I can sing it like parties from my buddies or whatever. taught myself all year, and then just kind of became obsessed with learning how to play. And by the time I was 22, I'm back in school, I'm in Boone, hang out with my buddies. I'm starting to dabble around with like, write my own songs because I was like, well, I could, you know, let's be cool. I like this. And then I wrote my first two or three songs. I booked a gig down the street just like at this bar my rugby team always hung out at because I figured that guy would you know he was like the co-head like wild card like he'd give me a show or whatever you know God was awesome you know I was like this guy give me a show if I want to do a show so I borrowed my neighbors guitar because mine wasn't even acoustic electric it was just a straight up acoustic and sat on a stool my other buddy let me borrow his PA speakers and Two hundred of my friends came out paid a dollar to see me I made 200 bucks that night that was more than I made it both my jobs that week and I was hooked man. I was like, too. This is awesome. Like I love doing this first off I'm like, I love doing this anyways, and I'm having a great time with like having drinks with my friends. Everybody psyched to see me here and stuff. And I was like, it just made sense, man. It wasn't one ounce of hard work in my mind after that point. It was just always fun, man. And I always loved it. Wow.

It just made sense, dude. Yeah, it was like a true, like, Aha moment, right? Like you hear about those from people. Oh, I think I'm gonna flip the top. Yeah. And you hear about those things, but it truly was that. It was truly an aha moment. And it was life. It was a life-changing man. I don't know what I'd be doing if I hadn't done that.

I think most people, right? Yeah. Like most people are like, and you're in your graduate college, I think about myself at, you know, if I graduated on time, 22, I didn't even graduate. But if I would have graduated on time, it'd have been 22 years old. And it's 22. I just by the pair of my chin figured out what I was going to do. And that's got to be kind of abnormal, right? Even. Like you go to college and it's like, okay, I'm a business major. Right. And then I get out and then I realize I hate business because I'm only 22 years old and then I don't vote anything. Yeah. All I know is like getting drunk and like smoking weed and stuff, you know, hanging out and going to class.

I always think to myself, man, don't make a living, make a life. Right? It's like, and that's, I wish I would have known that at the time. Yeah.

Yeah. And people tell you those things and it doesn't. Yeah. It just doesn't register. No. It's like when we were having this kid, it's like, people tell you, well, you're going to think this and this and this and I've heard it all. And it's all true, Joe. Every single bit of it is true. But it's like you don't believe it until that happens. You just can't. Like you have to experience it.

It does, man. It's definitely like earth shattering. Yeah. Thing. But it's And there's never that right time, right? There's always could be an excuse to be like, well, it's way to a couple years till we're this. And then you get there and it's like, well, we'll get a bigger place. And by that time you're 40, or something, you know, when you're that time, it's hard to get pregnant. Yeah, if you're set up, if you're set up in the bunker that you want to have with, you know, $10 million in the bank, you might be 50 something years old at that time. You know what I mean?

I didn't even realize that was a thing until Musk started talking about it.

Yeah, that's not man. I mean, it's not remember thinking like my grandmother, you know, she's one of 12 or 14 right and then my other my my dad's dad. He was one of I mean, 10, right? And it's like my dad's best friend born in Ohio. He's one of a ton, but they all grow up on farms. So it's like you're having, essentially the kids are had to help with the farm, right? That's the idea. at that time for those people. It's like, well, if I got more kids, I got more people to help. Yeah, you're using a staff. Right. It's just wild. And that's just not happening. You know, and not that obviously, that's the reason no one should be having children to die. People don't work at their own, you know, but it was a necessity at that time. Yeah.

Yeah, I remember, you know, I mean, I think back to, you know, my grandfather's favorite artist was Chad Ackens. And when he passed away in 2015, the thing that he, you know, gave me was every check-in record ever on vinyl. And I remember thinking like, what a cool thing, right? He loved that guy so much. He wanted the best guitar players ever, not to mention, but He loved that guy so much that he bought every say I'm talking it's those guys were put in fucking records out back then I mean they might put out two albums a year Wow, I mean go look how many more hired records are a way of engineering records. There's a bunch dude Willie Nelson records. There's 90 Willie Nelson records. It's a real 60 or 90 So either way, it's not a low number, right? But like crazy. Because those guys, they just went, they just lived in the studio, man. And they wrote and they cut their buddy songs that they loved. And it was like, it was quick, because it was all one take. We're going with the band, get a take. We like to take, done, print it. Now it's going to do the thing, record the songs, get every part right, comp the vocals, comp the guitar, parts, comp the drums, like it could take days and days and weeks to get one song right now because everything has to be perfect in everyone's mind, right? And I think that's the uniqueness of, I mean, Stapleton. He goes in and cuts records with a band. And they'd cut it live to tape and it's like, That's why it's different.

He sounds like a cowboy from 1860.

Yeah, yeah. Have you had him on?

Dude, that guy's so much cooler than me, damn it.

If he works on a range dude, he on that's right. Oh, Gary. You think so. Yes.

It really is, man. It's wild up there. It's wild place up there. How did you meet Rinella? Okay, so I'm Rinella a stand dude. I'm a Rinella stand. Me neither. I've been watching it for years, man. And it's just like I and you probably feel the same way, man. Like there's a lot of like machismo, bravado stuff and like the hunting industry. Yeah. That really like turns me off to it because I feel like it's why so many people like have a disdain for hunting it's not necessarily obviously there's people that go you shouldn't kill animals you shouldn't do this shouldn't do that right there's always gonna be those people but there's the people that go the type of people that hunt yeah it's almost a stereotype right and i didn't get into hunting till i was till i moved in ashville I didn't grow up hunting my dad's from the rust belt in Ohio like steel mill you know his dad was a truck driver like they didn't own land you know kind of thing so he didn't hunt that was just not a part of my upbringing right I used hunting and like inherently the guys I started running songs with and the guys I connected with all love to hunt right so started out is like okay well cool these guys will take me out that'll be super fun and as I fell in love with it as my curse because my career was taken off at the same time right and so life became more and more and more hectic and it became this cathartic experience of like being able to process some of what was happening to me and just enjoying that hunting was the opposite of everything else I was doing in my life. It was this pursuit of this thing that was so pure, it's calm. I'm in control of what's going on out here. I'm obviously not the animal, but just being here and being like present and not having my phone and not worrying about posting a Instagram or whatever it is. I fell in love with that rapidly. And so as I begin to go, well, dude, I want to watch this on television. You know, I want to see this. So I start watching stuff and I'm like, dude, some of these guys are brutal on here. Like, it's just not for me. Like, yes, honey. Like, oh, we're going if it's brown, it's down and just fucking kill it. You know what, it's like this whole thing about it to me was odd. Yeah, I got you saying. Right, like it felt like this fake, it felt fake to me, right? So then I turn on I see this show immediately on outdoor channel and I'm watching it and it's like I see the intro where it's like I'm Steven Renell and Hunting's not just about the pursuit of an animal and all the and I was like okay, that's different than all the other shows that I've seen you know, so I watched it and then there's this mega intelligent cat on there and he's cooking dude and he's taught and he's like a wealth of knowledge, right? And that's the thing that like that gets me like my dad's a big like thinker, you know, and he's always been interested in just learning about new stuff. Like he's always just taking in information and learning things. And so I think I kind of inherited that from him. And so then I became kind of obsessed with like this show, this meteor show, so I started washing it out to our channel. And then it comes on Netflix, this new, the new kind of version that comes on Netflix. And I'm like, dude, this is, this is like earth shattering for me. This is like it's marrying the intelligence of what this is. And it's exposing people to, in my opinion, what's the right side of hunting to be. for the thing that I love about it so much and I just for you so then my career is starting to go and go I saw you on there You know, I was like, man, that's cool. He's having guests on. You know, that's pretty sick. You know, and all his buddies were like wicked smart and like everything. And they do all this go to Alaska and boys and credible places, dude. And so I just had my PR team. I was like, just reach out to the sky. Like, please get me like, how do I get on the show? Like, I want to be on this. I want to meet the sky and like be buddies with them stuff. And it took like two years to finally get like, okay, we got a time he wants to do it. And what was it like when you first met?

It's a hard thing to get into him man.

Yeah, I was hooked. What was it like I'm curious to know what it was like like so when you like you've got first meet was he like a little cold when you first met him.

And it was the same thing for me. It was like, we got there, we hunted him Wyoming.

Yeah. And had never, I had never done that. You know, Switzerland. All new, yeah, it's amazing, dude.

Yeah, because it doesn't have any known really relatives, right? It also states.

Yeah. Cause not a servant. No. Yeah. No. That's what I was so interested. Did you have you had one of these? No, I've not. Dude, have you? So I didn't, and Renel told me this in the episode when we, he was like smell, it smells like fritos.

It smells like fritos, man. It's so, so strange. And I didn't realize their hair was hollow. So he's like, if you shoot one and it gets in the water, you're screwed. Because it weighs like three times as much. because the tear absorbs all the water. So it's just like, well, if you got to get it out, and you got to drag it up with water. It weighs three times as much as it did before you shot it. Because then my entire thing is just saturated with water. That's interesting. Which I thought was crazy. I wonder why? I don't know. It's got to serve some sort of purpose. Yeah.

Yeah. But I thought Steve was, it was like, it was crazy. It was like we got there when we were also hype, because I brought my buddy, Stan and Reed, who I could credit mostly with me getting into hunting, like two of my best buddies that write songs with them. Um, you know, we hang our kids hang out together, we hang out together, it's on. And um, they've been hunting their whole life. And um, I took them with me. I said, hey, if I do this, I want to bring my buddies. It's a great episode. Thanks, man. Yeah, really I love that one. But yeah, we were like, man, Steve, like, does he not like us? It was like, it was that first, like, two hours when we were like, You know, but then I realized more, I'm like, two, you're around the, like, people you don't know with like guns and stuff. You know what he showed out is we went and shot that night, because we got those six, five, 300 weather beasts that the meat eater got and that they made with weather be. And we went and shot that night, sided them in. And then he was like, all right, these guys know what they're doing. And then he was like immediately great. Like it was like, it was like he felt like comfortable or like, with us like he knew we weren't like bozos who were just out there and like didn't know at all what we were doing like we were going to some way be dangerous like to hit right to his crew or whatever it was like immediately it was like he was completely different.

Dude, he's, man, he's great. And I mean, he's just been so gracious to me. And I was up in Montana. We had a couple days off and I had him up. I was like, hey, I'm in town. Like, what's something I can do? And he's like, dude, he's like, bring you, he's like, you can park your bus outside. He's like, come on, he's like, dude, he cooked dinner for me and my bus driver, my security guy. Two guys, he's never met like, it's like his kids are running around, like shooting us with nerf guns. And I was like, this guy's great, man. It was just great, man. I think he's the best spokesman for hunting.

Yeah, I mean, he's wicked. I love him, dude. He's just unbelievable guy.

I've tried it a million times, right? It just does never work. You know, like Tennessee is not exactly a hotbed for rattling in books. You know, I can't say it doesn't work for some of my buddies, but it's never worked for me.

Yeah. It's like a week or two week like max where it really works.

It's not supposed to be on exact. I'm not going out there and it's weird, you know? Dear interesting men, they're interesting animals, man. The more you watch them, they just nothing makes sense to me with it. The more I watch them, the things that are supposed to happen often don't. I find, you know, like you're thinking, this is going to be, you know, I'm hunting the wind. I got the stand, I got the access, I got the wind, I got the spot, I got the stand. I got the food plot, you know, like in Tennessee, you can't own a verbate. So it's like you plant the food plot, you know, it's knee high by July and the corn and it's like you got it. It's everything's right. And then it's like, it's rot, you know, it's like, and it's just nothing. You know, sometimes you got there and you're like, what is how is this possible, you know?

I do the same thing. It sounds like it works for him.

I had a heartbreaker this year, man, of Whiteel. Trip, I went to Oklahoma for a week. And it was like, it was jam up man it was like there's gonna be deer like you know it just felt everything's right right we got this guy taking us out he was awesome man new stuff like Killer guy, you know, and it's like we're like we're going in me and my buddies were going in so as I went with Dana Reed's him guys I did meet her with we went And we're like two we're gonna to we're tagging out first night dude like what they're saying that's all these deer pics like You know, and we're like man, that's gonna be great. So first night Don't really see anything, right? It's like oh great some more than do we'll be tag now, you know more and it's for reason So it's our tree only you know Oklahoma's only got like two week rifle season I think so we're doing our tree morning comes nothing like man like not really seeing like a ton of deer and stuff and we're like we're getting tonight tonight you know we got five days to be out there and we were thinking we're gonna be going home early dude like we're gonna be here with the first night we're gonna tag out and be like trying to spend two days just hanging out you know or something And so about the third day, we're like, let's all switch. We'd all been in the same spots. You know, different stance because they had a few different leases kind of around this area of Oklahoma. So we were all going to different spots. And like, well, let's all switch up, right? So I get in the street in the afternoon. Sitting there, my buddy Dan, he's like, he's probably 500 yards away from me in another tree. And the, the, the guys kind of like really soft rolling hills. Like it looks flat almost if you're in the car. And then you realize there's a little bit of elevation change going on. So there's like this draw in between me and Dan. I'm there and it's freezing dude, wind's blowing 25 miles an hour. I mean, just hammering, but the wind's perfect for where I'm hunting at, right? Cause it's kind of like this, this grove of like, seeters, you know, and that's where all the deer are. Cause everything else is just ag fields around. sitting there I got these three does I watch them come like off this hill they come through the seaters hop this fence do their 25 yards in me like right all me do you know so I'm already like kind of standing up because I'm I'm not you know we're not even hunting a doe at this point you know and all the sudden man behind this kind of burn over to my left there's like a little pond Behind this burn walks out dude. I'm talking you're gonna think I'm lying 230 inch deer man. What? No lie. Everybody watching this is gonna be like you're lying. There's no you didn't see a 230 inch deer. 230 inch deer comes out. He's at 60 yards. Broadside. I've got my arrow. I'm on the D loop. I'm up. But I'm not drawing on him because he's brought out at 60. The wind's a good 25 miles an hour. So it's like that arrow's gonna go right? I'm not good enough to compensate for that kind of wind. I've also got do's at 25 yards underneath my feet. And I'm going, this box coming in dude. He's walking right into this thing. There's no chance he doesn't walk in here. There's do's in here feeding underneath my feet. And he's looking right at him. Broadside like this. So I'm hooked up. He kind of looks over. He's looking at the do's and then he looks back really quick. And he takes off. Like, dead sprint. Just stays at 60 and goes all the way into the seaters. Did the ones where? No, the wind didn't swirl. And I'm going, what is going on? I called the end and I'm like shaking at this point. I've got my bow back on the thing because the dos spooked down and they followed him. When they saw, they looked back at him and when he took off, they took off. I called Dan, I was like dude, I saw this once in 10 lifetime deer just come out and spooked at 60 yards. Like it can't be me. That if the wind's great, like nothing saw me dude, it wasn't me. And then he's like he's on the phone. He goes dude, there's coyotes around and through the draw right now. I can see him and I'm like, So I said in that stand for the next three days, just every morning, three hours, night, three hours, fucking kinds. So last morning, I'm up there. I look up back to where Dan was sitting at. There's kind of another ag fence into a cut. It's like a cut cotton field. So it's not even like, even though it's cut, there's not even food in it, right? There's not beans in it or corn in it. It's a cut cotton field. So really, in theory, nothing that these deer would be eating in this field really. So Dan's hunting somewhere else. So I call our guy. I see all these deer and I'm I'm glass and probably like said five hundredish yards out. I'm glass and and I see all these do's all these do's and I see him do just. I mean, you can see from 500 yards he's a giant without binoculars. You know what I mean? Like, just no doubt that this is the same deer. And he's cruising and there's like, if you can imagine there's this wheat grass on the fence row right there, that's grown up probably four foot, five foot maybe. and there's a gap in it where there's a fence, and probably six feet, there's another gap where there's a fence. So it's all grass in the whole way around except for where those two fences are. So I'll watch every dough pile, pass the first fence, pass the second fence, he's behind him, he comes past the first fence, never goes past the second fence. And I go, I call my guy said dude, come get me, this deer's bedded, in this little tiny spot, an exactly where he is. And he goes, all right, and he said, we're going back tonight, because this deer's not going to move. He said, we're going to do spot and stop up to this spot. Because I know he's laying right there. Stalk up, get probably 75 yards from that spot. And we pretty good feeling he's going to jump this fence and come right across this field to where we're at. And we're just going to be right there. You know, I'm sitting Chris Cross-Apple Solce, like ready. He goes, if we got 15 minutes of light left, he's like, we're gonna creep up there and see if we can spook him up. Kind of thing. We get up to do my heart is going to million miles an hour. It probably is right now just from being fat, but it was really going at that time, dude. You know what I mean? Like, I'm like, I'm one blood pressure point away from a stroke at this point, like, hiking up this thing. We get up there and we're like, Nothing's out there. I'm like, how can he not be there? So we're looking, we looked down on the fence and this property line right there. It's like, so it's like this fence, we have access to this fence here. There's an adjacent fence right here that's not. that they don't have access on. So we hop, look, he's a hundred yards in the cut cotton field, just stand and out in the cotton field. This is our last night, we're going to the plane after the hot and it was over, man. Turn 30 inch deer. There's, I'll never see him again. Never see anything like it. Wow, this is not high fence. This is not a pin, paid a play like pick your deer thing. Like I was Pope Bill being excited to shoot a 145 on this trip. You know what I mean? Big star of Eric Hill's 155. You know, and so I'm like, I got pictures of it. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. I want to say it. He's nuts. I'm saying I can find him on here.

Thank you for ever dude, and it's just let me see if I can find this thing.

Dead air. He was always sunny. I don't worry about that either. Remember the scene and always sunny where they they're trying to do a podcast in a way saying anything to video just goes dead air Not always rings in my head when I'm doing the interview for some reason Okay, so I'm close here.

Yeah, this is from, that's from a few weeks before we were out there. This is where this is where I was, right? So this is my kind of spot here. What time of year were we there? We were there December, like, second week of December. Yeah. And I'm half to. Yeah. They said, here's the thing with this year, right? Here's another angle of them. They go, here's the thing with this deer. They go, even if he loses 20 inches, he's a 210 inch deer. But there's a potential that he could be a 250 inch deer. Next year.

This deer, this deer breaks the county record by 60 inches. And it's a top 10 archery deer in the history of Oklahoma. It goes down. What's the number one? Number one, I could look it up. It's in the two like 40s range, like 245 range of all time archery deer in the state of Oklahoma. I didn't know Oklahoma deer, but that big. I don't think anybody does. Let's edit this part out. Don't go to Oklahoma. It stinks. The hunt in northern Oklahoma stinks.

I didn't know about it until this year.

We just had a friend that put us on to this guy and he was like, man, this guy's great and he knows his stuff and he's eager and he's excited to have y'all down and I was like, cool man, you got to think man, where I'm hunting to see you dude. A big deer in Tennessee is 140 inch deer, you know? So I killed a 155 in Mississippi and thought, killed a tern source rax dude. Yeah. So like when you're going out west dude and seeing these deer, it's unbelievable to a guy like myself to even see that. You know, they're going to 145 on my own place would be deer of a lifetime for us guys in South East North Carolina, Tennessee, Georgia, like that's The biggest deal you'll ever see.

Yeah. I mean, I can't say I don't do it myself. It's like, it's just so intoxicating of like not. And it's like man, the high fence thing. It just doesn't do anything for me. I've never done it. I don't want to do it. It just doesn't.

It's just not even comparable. It's like not knowing what's going to walk out is that almost the exciting part for me.

Right. Take to you want to shoot Ricky or Johnny or Greg or which one and they just go. No, like that's Greg's whistle. He'll come out on that one, you know.

Yeah, Tennessee there's no you can have you can feed them like not it's two weeks before season. You have to have all feed like you can have a grain of corn on the ground that's not in a food plot. You know, you can hunt our food plot if you plan it and cultivate and stuff and you can feed you know, you can do protein corn stuff like Obviously, you can't do it during Turkey season either. So you have to have it up for that as well. But through the winner. But through the, you can sell people. We'll not even win her because that's season. Right. Yeah.

Our season ends like first week of January and Tennessee. So after that, you can have, you can have stuff out. So you really, you're feeding through the spring and summer.

No, I want to real bad though. Like real bad.

What's a turkey hunting? They call it poor man's elk hunting. Right. Because there's the colon response thing.

That's all. That's all. That's the interactive nature of it. I think is what people get addicted to. And that can be similar to the alkanine experience, too.

I've had some, I've had some buddies, you know, cook for me that have got one and it's, yeah, I'd love to get one of my own for sure. Yeah.

Uh-huh. Yeah. You know, a lot of 300 pound guys elk hunting. You know what I mean? I can't imagine that. Unless they're six eight. There's something in here. Right.

It's also a part of it though, right? It's part of like how much work you put into it. Yeah.

It's like Steve dude, that guy can just go. Yeah. I mean, he just can just go.

That Buffalo Bucky road, some people. It's very good. Yeah, it's so good.

Yeah, that's that's awesome man. That that I don't know if it was like a book like that closing counters thing.

Have you listened to that? Yeah. To this chilling man. That guy that goes through the like hypothermia thing dude is one of the most intense things I've ever listened to man.

Yeah, man. Yeah, I was like, oh, the edge of my seat when they were telling us.

What they're saying? Yeah, honestly. Hit it with a like walking stick.

They ran like intersecting paths like he was running away from the bear. The bear was running away from them. Yeah. And the bear like hit him or something and he flipped on its back.

Yeah, he's imagined that memory of like this bear is running and somehow another year on its back on what the fuck yeah, he's I remember him telling like they were telling us that part and he was Yeah, I hit this bear and you know everybody's kind of laughing and he's laughing and stuff and then like right when the story stops he looks at me because I think about it every day Of course. But he was just like, he went just immediately like, yeah. It was funny to tell it. And then he was like, it was also the most terrifying thing of all time.

Yeah, that's a whole another kind of stress dude that I don't

Dude, how do you get in, like, like, that's got to be such a specific, like, sect of, like humanity that wants to like get into that kind of journalism, right?

Yeah, it's not, like, that's not, you're not reading the morning news. Dude, that's not scratching the edge for you.

That's just hard to believe that that kind of stuff happens.

Yeah. The world's crazy, man. There's a crazy place to, you know.

Oh, I'll get that one. It's good. Yes.

It's like semi-elk dude. You're like getting into elk territory.

That's crazy man. That's crazy stuff man. It's just, like again, it's just hard to believe that that stuff's going on right now right there.

Right closer, like it's closer to where we're at right now than I was this morning. from where we're at right now. Yeah. That's how I live in Nashville. Yeah.

Beautiful country. Oh my God. been down there a couple times it's gorgeous man.

It says it's insane. We went I went down there a few years ago to I have a deal with Columbia Sportswear, and I went down there to shoot some content for them. We were flying into Cabo, right? And so the thing was, we're going to go down there and try to do it more at like catch Marlin. You know, we're going to be in the idea, right? And I'm like, well, this is a sick, like, indoors, like I get them getting paid to like go fish for Marlin. Like in Mexico, that's awesome, you know? So it took a couple of my buddies down there with me. I'm Jonathan and Dan and Ray. Three of my dear friends and we go down and like all we had to do was like wear our Columbia stuff and they just took pictures of us like hanging out right. So we get into Cabo, get none of us have ever been to Mexico before. You know, you hear those kind of stories, so you're like, man, it's like, are we gonna be cool when they're like, yeah, well, you know, Cabo, like it's like resort town, you're good, whatever. So we get down, get out of the plane, there's like, you know, there's the guy with the van, and it's like, got like the name of like our party or whatever, and it's like Columbia or something. And some of the Columbia, like staff were coming down there with us too, like the head of P.F.G. and those kind of folks. So we get in the van and like, like, oh, there's cobbo and stuff when we're driving and like, we get on the interstate and I'm like, man, cobbo seems like it's behind us kind of right now, you know? We get, like, seems like we're not going kind of towards it, you know? And I was like, man, that's kind of, it's kind of odd. And then we're driving for like an hour and a half. And then it's like, do we are in like, nowhere? Like, nowhere. Desert dude and I'm like, is this right dude like a week cuz all we got's the guy driving us dude. It's the guy driving us in like me and my buddies in my manager Capy And we're like, I think, because the Columbia people traveled separate from us, right? So we're like, we're just hoping that this guy's like taking us to the right place. And all of a sudden, like, we pull into this, just like, town along the coast. And when I say town, there's not a McDonald's. There's not even like a store. Right? It's like a little, the roads are like sand roads, dude. And when I say the houses are like, like you think of a beach house, right? It's like there's the beach, there's the house and there's like the dunes and then like you walk through the dunes and there's the beach. These houses were on the beach, bro. Like they were on the sand. Like all the furniture in the house was poured concrete with cushioned on it. So if like the hurricane were to comment would just you just put new cushions on it. House would still be there. You know what I mean? It was like and we walk in and it's like sure shit they're Columbia like folks are there and there's like these two guys there and they're whipping up like they're making homemade tortilla chips. They're taking cut in the tortillas and like dropping them in the oil chopping up like making homemade guac and stuff and I'm like whoa, this is sick, you know? But where are we? Like where is this place, you know? So we do our thing out evening and get settled and we go out fish. I call it like a 90 pound tuna or something the next day. It was awesome and so much fun. So we get back that night and it's like when I say it's nighttime and we're it means desolate right there's houses kind of along the beach, but you can tell that not all of them are like occupied all the time right and it's not like these houses you think of in the States like they're not these big palatial like beach homes like we have they're kind of clean like small homes and all of a sudden we're sitting out there like we got a little fire going to spill out buddies picking the guitar or whatever And we're looking, you're gonna see like miles down the beach. And I just see just this one headlight coming down the beach from like miles and miles down. And I'm like shit, like we like, cause all the clone people, they were standing in like a hotel, like a resort, like 30 minutes away. So we're at the house alone in this town. This light just keeps coming and keeps coming and there's a beach little access road right beside our house where we're staying and this ATV comes and it's still like the lights and like and it pulls up and it stops right where we're at and I'm like oh shit dude like are we about to like have to pay somebody to like whoa what the hell's going on turns off gets off and it says older like white couple from Minnesota And I'm like, okay, this is mega weird. And I'm like, what are you guys doing down here? I'm like, oh, we're down here right songs, whatever. And it's really funny at my buddy Danny goes, we're talking to people there. Yeah, we're retired and we come down a kids are in college and we come down here and live just for the, you know, summer and whatever, winter or whatever, and stay down here. And I was like, oh, it's cool. You know, we all know these people at all. And my manager is asleep. So it's just me and Dan and Jonathan and Ray. It's got to be till 11 o'clock at night. And so he's talking to my buddy Dancer talking to this guy. And he's like, yeah, he's like, I'd love to, you know, get some grass or whatever, you know, this guy said something about grass, but not he wouldn't talk about weed. And then my buddy Dancer was like, yeah, I'd love to get some grass or whatever, you know. And he's like, well, I got some back at the house, won't you all come over to the house? And we were like, oh, I see this guy's sketch, right? And I'm like, damn, we're going, dude. We're going. And he was like, dude, this is a lot of pressure dude. He's like, capies in there dude. Like, we're about to walk off in this fucking town dude in Mexico. Like, sand streets dude. Like, I don't know where I wanna do these people in the rat. So we go down there. We walk down the road. We go in there dude. And it's like, just this kind of old, like, cool ass biker guy and his wife dude. And just rolls us one up dude. We rip with these folks. We're walking with him and talking and he's like, yeah, you guys like country music. You know, my buddy Dan says that and he's like, yeah, but I'm liking them new guys. You know, they're all cities or whatever kind of thing. You know, and my buddy Dan's like, yeah, there's a couple of guys that are pretty good though and stuff. And so we get in there hang out when we tell them we're riding ATVs the next day and they're like, well, we'll show you guys around. We start ripping tequila shots. This just made my buddy Dan and he's like 60 year old folks hanging out. And it comes to this point where my buddy Dan goes, he goes, dude, I got to tell him, man. And I was like, what do you mean? It's like, tell him what? We got to tell him. He's like, I got to tell him, dude, because I know their grandkids are probably like, like, like, they're grandkids, probably think you're cold. And they're not going to know. And he's like, imagine he goes, dude, he's like, get it to get him, dude. We're like, we're joint, dude. We're taking tequila shots, like smoking jays with these old folks. And he's like, dude, imagine if these people were in their 20s, and they were hanging out with George straight dude and it was their grandparents hanging out with George straight and they didn't know that it was George straight or whatever and I was like dude I'm not George straight though dude like what are you talking about and he goes man this guy's name's Luke and everything and and they're like oh cool you know I'm like we took a picture with them and the guy like wrote us a jay for the next day and like we take off out and we're like okay we okay mission like get back to this house right We get out in the street, there's no street lights, dude. There's one line on this one house and it's just kind of illuminating this road, this like sand clay kind of road in front of us. We walk out and I just hear this like clean, clean, clean. It's like a bell. And all of a sudden, do these two huge steers, dude. Walk out. like bulls, dude. Walk down this, and like, I'm staring down the barrel, dude. Of these two massive bulls, dude. On the beach in Mexico, with their or baked, we've been hanging out with these old people, dude. We're halfway lost, trying it back to this house. And we like, hot, we're like, hide behind this dumpster, and I'm like, it's just real. Like, we're all we do. What is this place? And we get back, we get back to the house, the bulls pass, we make it back, and it's gotta be two or three of them one at this point. Kip back and we opened the slot we're trying to sneak in everybody's in bed dude and I'm like I felt like I was sneaking out of my parents house or something again, but I was like 24 or five years old Open the door my manager unbeknownst to us is sleeping on the couch outside and when we clicked the door up and he's like oh god He gets like we're freaked out And I was like, dude, get up. I was like, I know there's left to have a shrimp in there and dude, make us to stir fry. It was like, what are you talking about? It's like, dude, we've been hanging out with these old people. We almost got killed by these bowls. And to his credit dude, he got up and whipped us up like this breakfast stir fry at like three something in the morning and dude. And like, that was my Mexico experience. So it's not, it was a great time.

So that's wild, man. How old is he now? He's got to be like pretty old. Is he 80s? Or 70s, late 70s?

So he was a wrestler. Yeah. Wild man.

That's pretty cool. Yeah. That's rare.

Yeah. Oh, a predator, right? Right, right, right. What did he like?

Oh, it's like the predators have been coming for a long time, right? Yeah. Okay. That's cool. Yeah.

Yeah.

Dude, I feel like those gung-ho like like late 80s like early 90s action movies were like the sickest dude. I remember Commando, I've seen that movie eight thousand times, dude. Like, it's just, that was a different level, dude. Schwarzenegger was just killing it, dude.

They were sick, dude. Like, I mean, how many got, look at him, dude. He was just, Jack. I'd like to look like 10% of that guy, dude, would be awesome, you know.

Is this the trailer? I love the chain mail vest, the bad guys. The movie wears dude.

The launcher dude was so hard dude when he brought the lock up launcher out.

This guy, he had the chain mail vested. Yeah, those movies were so good. Kindergarten Cop. Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. Yeah, this movie's a legend here. Me, my dad.

wild. How about another one big troubled little China. Oh, yeah. That's a classic class me my dad watched that all the time.

Is it a qualifier for being old that like everything are feeling old where you're like Man, stuff was better back then. That's just a qualifier, right?

What are you into? Music wise. Like, what would be, okay, you got five, dude. Okay, you only listen to five artists forever. And it's not, so it's technically not a favorite five list. Yeah, because I always take into account in this question like the scope of the catalog, right? So if I can really only listen to five artists forever, I don't want to listen to someone with two albums that I really like. I got to have somebody that's got to know for the catalog to keep me going through that.

That was the whole. He was like a microcosm, like a you know, he was like a synopsis of the whole era. Yes. Like embodied in like a human being.

That's wild.

That's just it's just hard to even. It's hard to find them. Yeah.

Right. They were just kind of like the cars people had.

Yeah, it had that, it had balls behind it, man. It was like, and it was like, the music was made, you know, it wasn't this commercialized thing, right? That it wasn't like, no one was thinking about it in that sense at that time. And maybe I'm insane for thinking that, but it just, it feels like that someone who wasn't even born then, who was my girl. This is that music. It has this like,

I get I get twist to do it on it. I get I get I get mega anxiety guy do yeah I get like here's my thing and I used to love it dude and when I win it's good it can't be beat right but I feel like as I got so it gets starts out right like you're in college it's like okay 10 out of 10 times I'm loving this right and then the years kind of went on it was like okay like one out of every 10 times it's not great for me and then like the years one on it was like three times at a 10 and now it's got this point where it's like nine times at a 10 dude I'm like thinking I'm dying having a panic attack dude and it's like I just dude it And I hate that because in my opinion, one of the best things in the world. But for me, it somehow, my brain has changed where it doesn't. Yeah, but it's like I even that I guess I don't even think it's that it's like it's almost like it's a chemical thing for me and like I hate that so much because I I did enjoy it so much and it was like it was such a great thing for me like when like creatively or like It just to relax, dude, or like have a great time with my buddies, dude, and it's like, I hate that I can't enjoy it anymore. And because I see other people enjoy it, it just got a power through. I know, but it's like, it gets to this point where like, around the right people. Because it always is bad, dude. Even if I'm with the right people, though, it's like, it becomes like this thing. And it's like, I suffer from like, really bad, like, really, really bad, OCD, like horrible, like, in one way. Okay, so it's like this weird almost like not even like necessarily probably considered like a legit I guess newer would be considered form And newer in medical terms, cause like the 80s is when like the first people were kind of exploring this type. It would be called like a purely obsessional OCD, which is like, okay, so you think when I say OCD, what do you think of?

Or like straighten in there.

Right. I think you're like, everything's gonna be like this. Yeah. You're like, where are you gonna be right?

So my thing is, It pure OCD is right where there's these unanswered questions in your mind that can never be answered. and the ritual is trying to find and answer, like, what kind of questions? Okay, so it could be, like, let's say you are super religious, right? And you love, like, at your core, like, you're belief in God and Jesus or any religion, right? Is the centered part of your life, right? So one theme of it can be, you have a thought. Everybody has crazy thoughts that slipped their head every day and they come and go. It's like somebody walking by on the street, right? They walked by and they go, oh, that was weird. I just had a thought about jumping into traffic. I don't want to. And I don't even that to thought doesn't even affect me in any way. It just comes and goes. It's like a weird thought that's a symptom of my brain, right? People like me become obsessed with the meaning of those thoughts and why they entered our brain when really they don't mean anything. So like someone that really loves God and that's a core part of their being is they would go, well what if I hate God and that thought just it's just a weird. It comes and it's gone as far as it can. That thought in your brain triggers a flight or fight response. So you get this mega adrenaline dump panic attack moment. So then that gives it validity to your brain. This is something we need to be concerned about. So it starts sending that thought more and more and more and the obsession becomes why did I have that thought? What does it mean? Do I really hate this thing and it essentially attacks the things that are essentially the antithesis of who you actually are, right? So a lot of people have like violent obsessions. where they would have a thought of like stab in somebody. They don't want to stab anybody. Really, at the core of their being, they're probably the most general soul in the world, which is why the thought causes them anxiety. And so then they become obsessed, like they get on their phone, and they're like, why did I have this, like, what are the symptoms of being a psychopath? Or why am I like this? Or what did I do this? And so these themes, when you have them, they shift over time, but that period could be three, four, five, six months at a time. And then you have another thought that's different, a different theme, and it just switches like that. And then you think back on the other one, and you're like, that was so dumb. I can't believe I worried about that. Now I'm worried about what if I'm schizophrenic and I don't know. And you're obsessed with this thing. And I've, all my buddies know this about me, and I'm not afraid to talk about it or anything, but it's like, people ask me sometimes like my buddies would ask me especially in high school is when it really kind of started for me and I think they would go you know try to explain it to me and the only way I could explain to you how truly bad it is right is if like if someone like murdered my whole family I would rather than be free and live with what I had than go to jail. That's how bad it is. And that's like it's not an exaggeration in any way, shape or form. I wouldn't wish it on anybody in the entire world.

That would be exactly the same thing. So that would be exactly the same.

So that would be like a, I've never had that particular theme like there is a theme of that like people who like your brains like you're about to say this thing don't say it. Right. And then you're like why would I think that I don't want to say that or I don't think that way or I'm that's not who I am and that that makes your brain send it more.

it's a broken circuit for sure and you like being afraid of it is what perpetuates it so like the only answer to it is living with the uncertainty like let's say I'm your friend in that moment the only way you can talk yourself out of it is you go you know what I might say really

I might jump out of this truck for sure. I'm like you know what I could jump in that front of that truck if I want to And that's how you know, okay with it. I'm okay with that I'm not going to but if I wanted to I could and I might and that's okay and like but you like I can't even explain to people. It's like because it's so weird to imagine like Having like if you had a thought of like I'm gonna reach across this table and just deck you one and I don't want to and I'm afraid of that but if I go you know what I could and I have to be okay with that. Wow. Like it's almost like a paradox, right? You're almost tricking the disorder. Because then if you don't care about it anymore, then your brain stops sending the thoughts. Because the thoughts are what's distressing. Yeah. Like the thoughts coming in continually are what stresses you out. Because the more you have them, you're thinking, well, that must be who I am. I must be this violent criminal or I must be this or I must be that or whatever whatever I must not love my wife for it's all these things that can never be answered right it's not like what's to plus two what we all know that's four These are all questions that really, there is no answer to them at all. And marijuana triggers those? No, not really. I just think that like, it can't be something that's like, no, and that's the thing is I'm not afraid of those thoughts at all. like they don't bother me because you become comfortable with it. Yeah, like it. And it took me a decade to get did you get counseling?

If a few times not routinely, you know, but I think counseling is almost paradoxical, right? Cause the more you focus on it. Oh, boy. So it can become a weird slow because reassurance seeking from other people. Like if I tell my best friend, dude, I just had this thought about shooting this guy. Like, tell me I don't want to shoot this guy. And then he goes, dude, you're not going to shoot that guy. And I go, oh God, thank God. then that you get addicted to the reassurance seeking which then makes the thoughts come more and more and more and more and more because you're giving them attention and it's so strange dude and it's like I know dude that there's so many people that struggle with it and no one would ever know I could be having them right now and you have no clue why I could be totally checked out of this conversation it's almost like you're living two lives at the same time That's freaky dude and it's like I wouldn't wish on anybody dude. I wouldn't it's terrible how often does it happen? Hmm. Now, almost never. But back then, I mean, I would attribute it to part, I mean, majority, I would attribute it to, like me feeling out of college, probably. Like it's like, don't you think you're going to be losing? I don't even want, no, no, no. Like, you don't even want to go out of the house because you're on the bus to school and you're thinking about killing people.

I was going to attribute it to my horrible grades without a doubt because it was like it was all like I remember the new the new screen movie had come out like when I was like 21 this around the time I started playing guitar and I was at my obsessions at that time were like violent obsessions and I would like the scream commercial would come on like to promote the movie and I would turn it off because I didn't even want to see like anything like I wouldn't even play like violent video games which is the wrong way. That's the wrong thing because then avoidance and reassurance seeking or what make the thoughts more prevalent. It's such a paradoxical thing. It's so strange, man.

It would, yeah. I mean, the more you can go out and not just, the more you hide from it. But do you get paralyzed by it? Yeah, for sure. No, for sure. But then it's the thing. It's like that you have to now. Like if I were to have it now, you just have to continue on. And I just know now that if I have it, like it will end.

Yeah, for sure. Oh, yeah. No doubt and it's like you feel so trapped, man. You want to talk about feeling trapped. I mean, you're in arena with 20,000 people in there and you're like having a full blown like and you're saying it and it's like nobody would even know that you know, but like that's Yeah, that's a lonely feeling, dude. You know what I mean? But it's, you know, if anything, I want to, you know, I know that there's kids that are at home like dealing with this right now. And like, I didn't even know what it was till I was probably 19 or 20 years old. And I had it since I was probably 12. And so you're just afraid dude you just don't you can't explain to your parents they don't know what to do they're like well I don't know what to do like It's just I can't imagine some kid at home going through this right now going through that right now and like it's just so sad dude to me to know that there's people that deal with it and it's like that it's such a it's and it's kind of obscure right so it's not like this it's not depression right it's not like the hyped up like oh I have you know I have depression or anxiety or whatever it's like

I think it's creativity, right? So creativity can be a really great thing and a really bad thing in my opinion, because I think the creative side of my brain that can create a song and a story from nothing, right? Like I could write a song about this you know, bronze skull you have here if I really had to. And I could create a story that was at least mildly compelling about it. But I can also do that with the thought of stabbing somebody that I don't want to have. Right. And my brain just swings with it. It's the same circuit, right? Like my brain runs with that creativeness and that can be a really detrimental thing to your mental health too.

In high school, yeah, would it give you? It would probably be now like, oh, I guess like, maybe, like, zoloft, maybe. I'm not sure what the generic of that would be.

Yeah, it's an SSRI of some sort. And that, that, it just didn't hit it for me, you know? And that probably does work for a lot of people. It just never hit it for me. It didn't stop the thoughts. No. That's the thing I don't know. Like I wasn't on it long enough. You know, I was on it for a month and really then the terms of SSRI is that's not even long enough for them to take a fact, right? Like really you have to take them for what? Two or three months I think for them to be fully going, right? So there is some sort of like serotonin dopamine imbalance thing going on associated with it. And I just choose to not go that route, but I think if that route works for people then they should do that. But that just wasn't something that I was interested in because I feel like it would have known like the creative aspect, the process. Yeah, or like anything that was left of like my positive life at that point.

It's just kind of, yeah, I wouldn't want to do that. And I think in some ways, I mean, it's some place I'm nuts to say this, but I think in some ways, my brain is kind of like that anyways. Now, and I think that may be an effective of the disorder that I've had. Like, nothing really gets me through the roof, excited. We're down in the through the roof, like in the dumps either.

I think, and I feel like it's a subconscious like almost defense mechanism of like having gone through like just these different things of that. And that's bothered me a lot over the course of my career too, because I Sometimes I feel really guilty about not feeling the way I feel like I should feel about certain things like I'm what way like if I win a big award or if I get a number one song or like those things are incredible and that's what I want to be doing like that's why I started doing this but like I don't get that serotonin like dopamine hit off those things like I feel like do you get that I watch my colleagues do and I wonder When I watch it, like I watch someone win in a word like Mel Vocalist of the Year or at the CMAs or whatever and go up and accept the award and they're almost in tears, like I don't feel that way. And that makes me feel really guilty and like that something's like wrong with me. You know, is that makes sense when I'm saying, you know, like I think you watch movies your whole life and you feel like these is the way that people are supposed to feel about things. and like sometimes I've and like I appreciate the scope of what's going on and what it means to me and my team and like I'm so like insanely proud of all those accomplishments like insanely like this is why I like do this is like to have achieved all of these great things but in that moment like it's not this like overflow of like joy and like tears and like There's a few times in my life I felt that's when I got married to my wife. So my son was born. That's it, dude. And I feel like I miss out on a lot because of this disorder, because of the way my brain. works or the the way that it's defended itself or something and there's probably a bunch of science that says I'm dumb or that I'm just like a motionless weirdo but like I like I feel like I've been robbed of that of all these things like and maybe they all just seem trivial because of all the shit that I dealt with for so long with it like the battles that fall inside my own head mmm I don't know, it's hard to really explain.

Yeah, like I just I'm just it's like I'm so thankful dude to just not be living in that mindset.

Yeah, yeah, but it's I love writing songs, man. I love it.

Okay, that makes me feel better.

Does that ever bother you in the sense of like, do you watch people go up like, Let's say there's, I'm not super familiar with the like comedic world. Like is there in a word? No. They ain't like, I don't even want the word. But like let's say there was, right? Let's, let's, let's, let's do like in the next reality, right? Like let's say there's the Oscars for comedy. Comedy Oscars, right? And you go up and it's like the funniest son of a bitch in the world award. And that's the biggest thing in comedy dude. You know what I mean? Like all your heroes want it.

Right. But, but imagine being in the crowd, let's say you want it. Let's say you want it, right? And let's say you want it last year. Yeah. And you're like, man, it just didn't feel like it was supposed to. And you're like, I love that I won that because I worked really hard. And I want that's something I want to achieve. And you're brand. You know that. Yeah. And you appreciate shit of it. You have it in your house. It's awesome. You're really proud of it. and the next year somebody else wins it and they get up to it and they're pouring the tears dude and they're like having this big like emotional outburst about winning this thing and how much it means to them. And then you're going, why didn't I do that? Why didn't I feel that like rush like was I robbed of that rush of emotion? Like I often wonder that about myself. Like when I see my colleagues win things, then I've even won. And they can barely even talk to get through the tears. And I'm up there like, hey man, this is so great, like I love my wife and my team and like everything's great. Thank you. Does that just mean I'm a different guy? Yeah, you're just a different guy. But that's the things I want you to do about about that.

And every somewhere in there, man.

Right. And I'm the same way dude. Like I'm just Okay, so let me ask you this. I'm interested. So you're obsessed with the result, right? So you go up. You do your bit last night and it fucking crushes to the slams. You love it, right? Everybody loves it. And you're like, I got something. Yeah. Are you? And so after that ends and you're sitting in the green room and let's say, or you finally get home and you're by yourself. What is the thing that keeps you shoving the needle in your arm dude? Is it the reaction and knowing that I've done it? I did it again. I did the joke. I got the joke that's

And it's the fact that it resonates with someone else. Yes. On such a grand scan.

Yeah, that makes, that makes me feel great because I, I feel I feel that same way, man.

Yeah. The beauty of it is when you are there for that is as I had a show, right?

Like if you get that one person not a 60,000 or whatever now that we're doing these stadiums, it's like that makes it to the front row. Yeah. And they want to hear this one song. Yeah. It means so much to them. And you play it. Yeah. and you see him dude I've had many many many nights where it's like I have one song in particular that's called even though I'm leaving and it's a song that essentially starts out with like a dad talking to his son saying like oh man like you're scared of the I know there's not any monsters under the bed kind of thing and Like, I'm just down the hall, you know, I'm not leaving. I'm not going nowhere, right? And next verse is, then it's the sun and he's going off the war, right? And the duck changes to, you know, even though you're leaving, I'm not going nowhere. You know, be here when you get back kind of thing. And then the last verse is the dad passing away. And it's like, hey man, like, even though I'm leaving, I'm not going anywhere. You know, and like, There's been many nights where, like, you see that person that's connected with that, like, that's lost their dad, right? And they're there, and they're right in your face, man, and they're just like, there's three or four people on them. Just, you know, and they're just weeping dude. I'm uncontrollably, and it's like, it's powerful dude. I mean, that stuff is like, that's powerful stuff, man. And that's the reason you do it. That's it. That's why you do it. That's why you get excited about it. Yeah. Yeah. It's not the wrong with you. Because there's nothing that there's nothing that speaks to. to me like that does.

Yeah, it's just you want to make people feel something. Yeah. You want to make them feel this, whether it's a cathartic thing or it's like, you know, like, even songs that maybe are mega sad, it's like, There's something cathartic about, like, basking in sadness. I think, too, sometimes, like, very attractive. Right. Like, like, people, it's like, sometimes you hear, like, well, you know, you know, pull yourself out of it kind of thing. But like, I think there's an, that's an important part of the, some sort of process of life is if you get your heart broken. Yes. A loved one passes away, like that. Yeah. You know, your sadness is like part of the process, right? And it's like, that's such a powerful, like human emotion to me. Like it's everyone.

Right. But it's like they want to hear this put this song on that. It's almost like reaffirming this feeling.

That's good. That's what I feel good, man, because I worry about that. I, you know, I think about that a lot and that's not, you know, that's not something I brought up to tell a lot of folks really almost ever, you know. But I often, I wonder that a lot, you know, I spend a lot of time worrying about that.

But it's not that, then it's like, I worry, it seems like, well, it's not, I don't want this to be expected either. It's not expected. It's just, you're like, you're comfortable with it, right? Yeah. I'm just like, all right.

This is what I'm doing. Like, this is the kind of level of stuff I'm doing. Talking about planning a stadium tour is like a normal.

It's like not even like Just doesn't even seem like possible, right?

I just try to stay so rooted in like humility like that's been such a huge part of like I think like like how me and my whole team have like gotten where we are is like like I just want people to know like how like grateful I am for all of it right is like it's not like I am 1% of the of the puzzle dude you know what I mean like I'm the guy that gets to sit in here and talk with you But the 99% of everything else that's going on is like work that's done by someone else other than me, dude. And I feel like that whole part of the process is like lost in like the idea of like celebrity, right? It's like me and you are just one guy. But we're a, we may be maybe we're a bigger cog in the wheel, right? But you take that one cog out. or any cog out and it doesn't work. Yes. Right. It's like there's a team and I'm sure you have a team of folks that propel your success because there's not enough time in ten life to do all the things it's necessary for your stuff to go on or my stuff to go on. Like there's so many folks involved in that and like I'm just I'm really grateful for like having a like awesome group of people to like work with that like don't just tell me yes to everything and like that are willing to challenge me on things and like say hey man is this a right decision or I don't love this song or like Why would we do this thing? Like why don't we think about this? Like I've always tried to keep it this open thing of like me and like people that work with me can talk about things and to have discussions that a lot of people I think Sometimes lose that. They become so shielded in the idea of celebrity, which is like, they got a security guy. So nobody on their team, like they might not even know this guy that works for them at all. They don't even know that guy's name and he's worked for him for five or six years and all. Doesn't even know him. And like to me, it's like, I can't see where all best friends do. We're not all coming over to my house and having You know, oyster roaster or something you don't I mean, but like I'm friendly with everybody that's out on the road with me and like I want people to know that like I'm approachable, you know, like we can talk about something like I think that's so crucially important to like the overall success of the thing because if I show a bit of venue The only impression that 99% of the people working in that venue will get me is someone that works for me. Right. So everyone on my team is rude. Then what are they going to think about me? Of course. They're going to go, well, this guy must be a jerk, dude.

I just think about, it's like, I can't tell you, like, how many beers I shock on the college? And like, now I can shock on the beer and like 50 or 60,000 people are like stoked about it. Oh, like, that's awesome. Like, pretty awesome. I did seven or eight of these at night. Yeah, ears, dude. Yeah. I don't know yours. I might do when I heard, we were talking you went to the bathroom when I was talking about it. That's why got me thinking about it. Yeah, shotguns. I might do one. I might do one. I might do one.

I might just do one out of straight out of the cage. I'm just going to use a knife. Yeah, I'll start it.

I always started that way, right? I feel like that's for good effect, you know? I got to a dozen two. Oh, we're on that one. That's right here. That's two. I got two teeth through that bad boy. Old school. Yeah, it's an art form, you know, it's not a speed. This is not a speed thing, right?

Do you think you could freedom funnel faster than I could chocolate one?

It's possible, I think. For sure. Well, I want to find out sir.

You gotta close it because you open it.

Oh yeah, that's big rule.

Oh my goodness. Who was good? I don't even know how you did that. It's a college.

I don't know. I just always heard that. Like if you open it, you got to be the person that closes it. It's like bad luck, right? Really? That was your, I've always heard that at least.

It's like the guys that do flip the cigarette around. Like when they open a pack of cigarettes, they flip the first one they touch upside down. You heard of that?

I don't know.

But you flip it or flip it upside down. And then that's the last one you smoke at the pack. Well, I didn't know that. It's another weird superstition. I'm sure there's a bunch of those. I'm sure there's a bunch of those. I'm sure there's a bunch of those. I'm sure there's a bunch of those.

I'm sure there's a bunch of those. I'm sure there's a bunch of those. I'm sure there's a bunch of those. I'm sure there's a bunch of those. I'm sure there's a bunch of those.

I'm sure there's a bunch of those. I'm sure there's a bunch of those. I'm sure there's a bunch of those. I'm sure there's a bunch of those. I'm sure there's a bunch of those. I'm sure there huge and I just I don't even know if I have like what questions I would even have I could do three hours just on That like I'm just I've just been such a fan of it for so long like since like back to high school, you know like I probably got into it like Obviously like I'm not O-O-G dude. I'm not like Gracie UFC one guy like I was too young when that was going on but I was like Chuck Tito like that was like when I started and that was like that I'm hooked like Chuck was the guy for me that got me hooked like yeah I'm like this guy

It was, man, and just hit the him and Randy trilogy to the him and Tito thing, it was like, those were the, and I remember watching like, like, Stefan Bonner for Schgriffin, like, that was just a, the war bloodbath, like, and I just became, like, obsessed with it. Like, it's so, It's just so primal dude that I look I couldn't love it anymore, man. Like I'm just been to a lot of event. I have not. Oh, you got to tell me when I don't want to go. We'll hook it up. So bad dude. Okay, okay, so here's me out. What's the what's the next title fight that I think I should see in person?

Dude, that ain't the way he fainered that punch dude to get him to duck into it. Dude, I remember screaming. We were at, I was at, uh, look at this fight cart, too.

Oh man, I'm just eating up to this.

You're going over GSP.

He raised it to the level of that now.

I think Cosvetol's GSP level?

He's a killer dude. No, he's a fucking ass ass.

Dude, he, it was like, and I can agree with you watching like,

Right.

Let me ask you something that has been intriguing to me, and this is a fan who I would say I'm above casual fan, but below expert knowledge fan, right? So I'm not a guy that watches every five paper. I'm a guy that buys every paper view. I watch a lot of the, you know, in between deals because I enjoy it, right? But I'm not a guy who's like, oh dude, he's, you know, the way he got into that dars is like, I can do some of that stuff, but I'm not expert level. So And I'm interested to hear your take, and this is as a fan who doesn't know these guys at all, and has nothing against them. But I remember, and I think in my mind, his undeniably, they go, as again, just above casual fan, John Jones. John Jones is the goat.

And Cyril looked kind of unbeatable up until the Francis fight.

So I think what I'm what I was thinking is, and when I bring up John Jones, I remember at the first John Jones thought I watched was when he got uh... de-cute against madham okay from the twelve to six of us yeah that was my first experience with him the next thing i feel like i remember and i may have seen some of his fights between them but is when he like

So here's what I'm getting at is I room and I and this is going to be and just kind of I'm interested in your take on this because I watched it have one John Jones and I feel like I watched it happen with Kamaru as well where it was like John and Kamaru as they came up right it's like John does this thing where he stops this robber and he wins the belt he beats Shogun who is this kind of like You know him and Leo to where these kind of like unfigurable guys to me as a fan at that time right like guys like how do you beat Leo to Machita you can't because you can't even touch the guy right at that time and they were like inherently these like good guys that everybody was rooting for. And then both of them became these like, epically long-range champions that then became sort of like villains. Come on, I was never a villain.

To me as a fan, again, who doesn't know anything. And maybe it's the, it comes back to maybe the celebrity like ego thing like to the camera as a fan. Again, I've never met the guy, he's probably great. But just as a casual watcher, I went from going, I'm rooting for this guy to then it be like the way he talks about himself. And I feel like John Jones was the same way to me. Is they became this like really like, and then John got in all this kind of like turmoil and stuff.

It's the 260 inch deer did Yeah, because my me and my buddies were talking it's like there's not that they're like man. That's not the deer will lifetime. That's the deer of 10 like

I haven't trained in a couple weeks ago. He throws that in his training point. Yeah, all the hours like Lord. I was like he's gonna demolish this guy did.

Thank you goes back down to light. You know what? Let me tell you something man

Probably.

I was like, yeah, all speculative.

He like Chandler McGregor.

Yeah, I feel like Chandler. Chandler, uh, McGregor would be electric to see. Oh, yeah. For sure. If it happens, I love that I love that Chandler just all or nothing, man. I love that about.

Yeah, for fans. Yeah, like I feel like his last two fights, man.

Right. That's crazy man. That's the stuff that the casual fans just didn't think about. Yeah. Like you just, you just want fight to happen. You know what I mean?

That's traumatic.

Stuff gives me the wheelies man.

Yeah, it's pretty not good.

Like you want it to be of course, you know, I mean, I don't think Poe, probably once it's done that way, they're right. No, he wants it to be. Right. Yeah.

Yeah, he ain't afraid of it. No. He's fun guy to watch.

Yeah. It's nothing like it. It's so much fun, man. It is really so much fun, dude. Really is.

No, I'm not done any training. It depends what you made my exercise, I guess.

It's been a lot of time outside. I mean, you know, I can't say I'm a gym, right? Obviously. But it's interesting. I've always struggled. I've been this big. forever as weird as that sounds, right? So it's like, proportionately to my, you know, until I stopped growing height wise, you know, like once I got to where I'm at now, I was kind of like this size.

Yeah, the crazy thing thing I think that I struggle with the most with it is, you know, it does bother me, right? Like being bigger that bothers me, right? The thing that also bothers me about it is like, okay, I literally went to the doctor last week, right, to get the whole bus down like I get physical every year, right? bloodwork, dude, panels, counts, everything. And it's just all clean, dude. And that's like, it's strange to me, dude, because I feel like I shouldn't be this big right and it feels and that's really upsetting to me like I don't need to tremendous amount of unhealthy food like I'm not stagnant I mean I go out and do I mean I was doing you know, our 45 to our sets three sometimes four nights a week for years at the size and it's never bothered me, but it bothers me right it does though it bothers me in the sense of like because I don't I don't feel like I should be the size that I am, right? And I'm sure everyone's going to jump on me when they watch this and be like, well, you need to do this, you need to do that, right? And I've just, it's a code that I've never been able to crack, right? With diet, with exercise, we've, I've had a trainer out on tour and it's like, I can lose 10, 15, 20 pounds and then it just stops, right? And maybe that's me dude, right? Because ultimately I think the thing that's so frustrating to me is like, is it ultimately it is me, right? There is nobody else to blame, right? Like there's not. I know whatever I'm doing at that time is not enough.

Oh, remember the Titans? Yeah.

I'm in the middle of that, right? Like I'm in the middle of that process of like, I have wrestled with it for a long time, right? And I'm ready to like move on with like the next part of my life.

Yeah, I need, that's the thing I need is like, you know, having, you know, our son and everything I think is huge, you know, that's given me such a perspective shift. I'm just I'm slowly but surely you know it's every day it really is like it's making this choice instead of that choice and it's like that's so hard right and it is and and not and that's not an excuse at all you know because I will get there. I'm a firm believer in that, you know, if it doesn't matter, I can find someone to help you.

I have a great trainer. That's the thing. I have a great trainer and I feel like, yeah, I just gotta commit to it, man. And it's like, I have a guy that's great in our schedules like he's, you know, he's got a son that he was the guy that come out with us. And I love him dude, and that was the most progress I ever made and eat me and him get along so well back on our horse Luke, let's go.

And I think it's like It's funny I was talking to my business manager who's a dear friend of mine now, you know, and him and myself and my manager are all really really tied. It's kind of an abnormal relationship in the sense of like, he's not just my business manager, right? Like he's become, he's friends with my parents, like he's a part of like our lives now, right? And so we talk about these things and I remember telling him sitting out one night having a whiskey and I was like, I was like, Chris, man, look like, I was like, I don't know if I accomplished so much like doing music. and like I've you know we're about to go in the stadium for this was just a few months ago I think maybe December or January and I was like listen man like I've accomplished all these things and like I've won entertainer the year twice now and and I've got you know 15 no one songs and all these insane accolades that I could have never imagined and like in some ways Like, because I love music and because I feel like I've been a blessed with like the voice I have in the town, I have like the voice in the town I have to me doesn't feel earned, right? Does that make sense to you? Like there is a lot of work to hone the craft, but like nobody that's tall is like inherently talented for being tall, right? And just because your tall doesn't earn it, right? You don't feel like you're, you're not great basketball player because you're tall, you earn that. But sometimes the precursor to being great at basketball is being tall. So you do have to not always, but for the most part, statistically speaking, that's a precursor of being great at basketball. Having a great voice Statistically is a precursor for being a great musician. Not always, but for the most parts, statistically speaking. And so I don't want to come across as contrived or anything when I say this, but like, I feel like Sometimes that I haven't done anything that's like hard to do.

But like my, but like I think my physical fitness and my appearance in my size has always been something that I've struggled with. From this time I was a child. And like it's this mountain that I've always been standing at the bottom of. trying to run up and inherently slipping down every time, right? And it's this thing that I feel like if I don't overcome it in my lifetime, it will be my biggest regret. Mm. Without a doubt. Like it is a burden that's way so heavily on me. And many guys. And silently. And many women silently. And not, and not because I care of what other people think about me, about the way I look, about the my size or any of that. It's because what it, I feel like it means about me as a man. Because there's this thing that I want to accomplish. that is solely up to me. Nobody else can do it for me. Nobody did this to me. But me. I want so badly to conquer that. And I will. And I'm excited for that day to come because I know that will mean so much to me. I want it to mean something to my children. I want to be running around the yard with my children. I want to take my son on an elk hunt when he's 16 years old and hike up a mountain when I'm in my late 40s. I want to do that with him and I know right now I can't do that with him and that bugs the shit out of me. This is all doable Luke.

And I think there is beauty in that that it is something that can be accomplished.

No. It can be done for sure. Non-posable. All right.

Appreciate you having you doing this. Let's do it again. Absolutely. I'm in fucker. Yeah.