Transcript for #1203 - Eric Weinstein

And we're live. Are you going to update the people out there? No. Are you shot your phone off while you're professional?

It is very weird out there. We were just talking about how weird it is out there before the podcast about how it just seems like it's very difficult to keep together during these times and to keep a reasonable position and to handle all of the pressure of all the people that get upset at anything you do. Left or right in the middle, centrist, your two centers, your two left, your two right, your unreasonable, your two reasonable, your two nice, you're not nice enough.

Doesn't it seem like that?

How so?

It seems unnecessary but it also seems like we should be able to disagree on things and you should be able to point out with reasonable courtesy that there's something wrong with someone's idea and it not become a big personal thing but oftentimes it's not the case.

Well, it also tries to explain your feelings too.

Yeah, I have a very minimal understanding of biology, but in that understanding, I've come to accept some things just about being a person that I never considered before, such as. All the different things that are running your decision-making, like just what we're talking about, like the need to be in a group, and all these are probably evolutionary advantages to fostering tribal behavior, so you could all work together in feed each other. you know this is always pulling at you and you know when when people give people hard time about virtue signaling it is kind of gross when someone virtue signals you know but we understand what it is it's gross because we've all done it right that's one of the gross things about it when someone is just like really trying hard to act like, you know, they're disgusted by the way people behave because they would never behave like that. And they just want to let you know, I'm above this type of behavior. What's most likely because they weren't above that kind of behavior at some point in their life or they're not currently really above that type of behavior, but they wish they were.

Yeah, three shots in. All bets are off.

Let's also this thing this need to belong and need to be accepted. Like we work to be accepted, instead of work to be someone that you would want to be a part of the group. Instead of being really honest about who you are and how you think and how you behave and how you operate in the world. Instead of doing that and trying to prove on that, you try to project an image of this.

Well, he's super honest, right? That's one of the reasons and he's bulletproof in that regard, but you can't fuck with him like you can't say hey look at you you're just a playboy. He'd be like yep Yeah, like girls. Yeah, it works. Yeah, um, what else? Right. Well, I'm nice. Like he's a nice guy. Talked to Dambell Zarian. He's friendly. He's not bad guy.

Well, in the case of Dambles area, I really don't think he's going to lie to you. I don't think that's what he's doing. I think what he's doing is living like a guy who's got a hundred million dollars and happens to be 35 years old and likes to bang hot chicks and fly around in private jets and live in some, if you see that fucking house that he's got, he just bought some crazy house and like Bellair. I guess with that weed money, Jesus he's got some it looks like you probably cost $100 million or something ridiculous like that. It's a fucking insane house But that's what he likes. Yeah, you know the guy drives likes to drive around for our reason and but he's a nice guy So it's like well, where what's wrong with this picture? What's wrong with his pictures? He's doing things look at this. This is his house What in the holy fuck is that? Do you have a golf course on his roof? What is that? This is a fucking ridiculous house. Look at this fucking place. He gives his address out. Is that his address?

Why the fuck would he give us a dress-out?

Whoa, look at this house. It's preposterous. Anyway, this is what he likes. But why is that bad? I mean, look, we only have 100 years of everything goes perfect. I know. What do you give a shit? Like why does everybody get a shit, but they do give a shit. They give a shit a lot because for a lot of folks that are working, you know, making a good living, making no 50 grand a year or whatever, that's it. completely out of the realm of possibilities.

Well, I want to support people's ability to do whatever the fuck they want. On one hand, I want to support someone's ability to sit in front of a computer and whether you're working or you're writing code or you're writing a script or you're just fucking playing video games. I want to support your ability to do whatever you want to do. If you have the means, if you're not, you know, if your family's not starving, this is what you enjoy doing. Why do I care? But as a person who's experienced a fair amount of adversity, especially self-imposed adversity, I would tell you that you would benefit from it. I've benefited from it and I think you'd benefit from it too. You don't want to be that guy. The two hours into the hike says, I want to go home. You don't want to be that guy. You want to be that person just says, well, this is what we're doing. And I'm going to figure out how to do this. And I'm going to show character. And I'm going to be proud of myself at the end of this. I mean, I might have to walk for six hours and when it's all over, my legs might be shaky. And I might have to sit down. But that gate array is going to taste so good. It's going to be like the greatest gatorade of all time because you're going to drink it, you'll be like, ah, I earned the shit out of this. You're going to feel it. And I think we've learned about ourselves through especially self, well, any kind of adversity. You know, look, I'm coming off of being evacuated from the fires, which was for me, not that difficult. You know, I'm not poor. I got a hotel. I brought my family to the hotel. We got safe. got my dog to the podcast studio and everybody's all right, you know, but for those firefighters, I mean 12 hour shifts battling the blaze or people who lost their home. Some of them tried to save it. It was a story about a guy in Malibu, the climbed on top of his roof with a hose and tried to fight off the fire and he got severe burns and he's in the hospital and I mean it's raining ash and these chunks of fucking fire on people, these members, they're falling from the sky, and this guy's trying to save his house. I mean, that guy literally went through the fires. He'll be a different person after this.

Yeah. It's unavoidable. It makes you, it makes you buck up. Like you got to get out of there. Like we got it back with it Thursday at 2.30 in the morning. We were looking up, we're like, we got to get the fuck out of here. Like, it don't give a shit what you leave behind. Just go, keep your body and go. Everything else, it's either replaceable or you don't really need it that much anyway. Just fucking get out of there. And when you see that fire raging over those hills and helicopters are dropping water on it and then another house explodes because the gas line gets hit it's just you you I saw that you see that you go oh there's this is not enough people in the world save you there's not enough fucking firefighters or cops there's too many houses there's too many people and a bunch of these houses are going to go you got to get the fuck out of there and but there's a certain I was with a bunch of my friends from my neighborhood and my friend Tom Segura in his wife. We all stayed at the same hotel. And we felt there was like a tangible sense of community.

Contests. Yeah. Do other animals have any contests?

Well, we're the only ones that do stuff like that that can communicate, right? Like dolphins can communicate, but they don't do stuff like that.

I had William Von Hippel on a couple of days ago, and he's the author of the social leap. And we were actually talking about this about one of the things that made human being successful as we came down from the trees and started walking around the grasslands as our ability to organize and to work and coordinate together.

Yeah, they're shielding. They're putting up their shield. Right. And often is, you know, to project a certain image to you. They want to be taken seriously. They want some respect. They can't deal with you goofing on them.

Well, isn't it like everything else? Some people are good at things and some people suck at it. So some people are good at being silly with their friends and some people go too far. I mean, you experience that. Like I've had friends who experience that where they do a podcast and on the podcast, they fuck with each other. And they'll have someone come up to them that they don't even know right off the street and immediately say something like ruthlessly insulting to them and they're like, what the fuck? And they're like, yeah, man, you do that shit on your podcast all the time. I'm like, okay, you're doing it wrong. I don't know you. We're not friends. We're not bonding here. You're walking up and saying something mean calling someone a fatso. Exactly. Yeah, they just not good at it. And oftentimes, that's some sort of a sign of social intelligence, a lack of social intelligence, a lack of, I mean, who knows what's going on in their home, might just be bad information from parents, and they're growing up in this environment of just very low-level social skills.

Well, and also there's some things that there's a reason why we have this instinct to mock things. Yeah. Because people get out a lot and then they demand too much goddamn attention and they become a problem. And this is a, I think I believe this goes back to hunting parties and hunter gathers with a one person who just wanted too much attention. Like you, you're fucking enough for this group effort. And that's kind of what happens socially when people claim these very ridiculous victim statuses. Right. You know, and there's a picture that I put up on my Instagram a couple weeks ago of this guy. He had this crazy makeup on and he had this ridiculous description of himself like non-binary queer that also identifies as a Muslim and he was talking about quantum physics. The quantum physics got helped him appreciate his queerness. And I looked at that. I was like, okay, maybe. Or maybe you're just fucking crying out for attention. And all I wrote was make sense, definitely doesn't seem crazy. And people got mad at me for that, for something so obvious. I looked, I just peered into the fucking deep dungeon that is the comment section for a moment. And I saw people like, you would think that the people that are most susceptible to suicide, you would leave them alone, but your cruelty is, you know, you're exposing your cruelty like you listen. That's silly. That guy needs better friends. Your friends are going to tell you you're silly. You got crazy makeup of your scenes guy. No. You have a photo. Look at this. I wish I rack a gay non-binary and also identify as Muslim. Listen, you need too much goddamn attention. That's all I'm saying. And I'm saying you're a bad person, you should kill yourself, you shouldn't be queer. Be whatever you want to be. But if you're going that hard, that hard to define yourself. That is needy as shit. That's fucking annoying.

Well, that's that's the thing. Yeah. Yeah, you're supposed to celebrate it.

Yeah. Well, you know what, you could celebrate it. That's okay. But you shouldn't get mad if I go, oh, that might be a little nuts. Because it's obvious little nuts. It's a little nuts to paint your face with glitter. It's a little nuts. It's a little nuts if that was just a regular person who's like, hi, I work at JC Penney. My name is Wendy and this is what I like to wear on my face. Like, okay, Wendy's a crazy bitch. Look at Wendy. Go look at Wendy. Look at her face. What is she doing? I don't know, man. She got fucking crazy glitter in her hair's 15 different colors.

Lips. What kind? I shall.

I've heard that word. It's freaking out.

Really? Yeah, sure. So it's been a real issue, like you've struggled with it. Yeah. You've struggled with the feeling or struggle with the fact that you have the feeling.

Well, because you're a logical person and you're looking at this war pain that people are putting on and you don't understand the desire to do this. Why do you understand? You do, but you don't understand actually doing it.

Right. Well, they've just accepted it.

With me, it's women's shoes that have gigantic heels, those celettos that they could barely walk in. That one freaks me out. It freaks me out because I see women walking in. I'm like, this is so crazy. This is a choice that you're, I mean, I can't imagine. I'm paranoid, I guess. Maybe I've seen too much physical conflict. I can't imagine wearing something that would physically compromise me to the point where I literally can't run away. Because you can't run away in those things. If you're in like stilettos, like these little things that you walk around in, and your feet are all smooshed in, and you're basically doing tiptoes everywhere you go, and your feet have to be killing you by the end of the night. You're not running away. There's a wolf chasing you or some shit. If there's something going down, you're not getting away. It's just, it's a weird desire to lengthen your legs and to give this graceful appearance.

Yeah, maybe. For a lot of people don't know cowboy boots. Yeah. The reason why they slip on like that is when the the horse bucks and takes off your boots fall off. They're supposed to. I didn't know. Yeah, that's the whole idea behind the reason you slip on and slip off and they have that heel.

Or there's that wooden heel that heel slips into the stirrups. So when you get, when the horse bucks, you don't want to get drags on, you want to that shit to just fly off. And then you're on your back going, oh, look at that horse go. And then you go pick up your boots because they fall and off. And the fucking horse is gone, but at least you're alive.

If you, yeah, if you get, well, not really. I think that's like your gunfight type deal. But I think if you get dragged, I mean, if you get dragged, horses are going to run over rocks and shit, you're done. People die all the time that are wearing regular shoes that shove their feet into stirrups and then you're stuck. That's why cowboy boots come off like that.

They always say that. Girls are hilarious. They're so comfortable. These are so comfortable. Right. Like, how is that even possible? Those aren't crocks.

Well, the deception has to be, you have to decide that you're not ridiculous.

Yeah, but when the girls are saying, oh, Girls could say, these are so comfortable because they're not killing them because they've accepted a higher level of pain tolerance with footwear than men have. Like if I had to just jam my feet into something poiny, like some poiny and that's Spanish dance or type shoes.

Yeah. Well, I used to have to wear one when I drove limos. I think, well, I've definitely worn one since then, but very rarely. Very rarely. Someone could kill you pretty easily with a tie. Like if someone has a tie on and I grab a holder tie, yeah. Boy, unless you're a lot bigger than me, I might kill you. Got to hold your tie. Tie is a hard thing to shake loose. It's really strong. Like you could you a good tie is not going to rip. Yeah. Someone gets a hold of your tie at the knot and just twists and holds onto you. All they have to do is hold onto you. Grab an arm and just grab their legs around you and hold onto that tie. You're a dead man. You're you're giving them a weapon. Yeah, you all the time. All right, you convinced me no more ties just the grab that and just fucking twist you don't have much time men. You you don't have much time to get this arm off your next such a UFC. You have to figure out it's a jujitsu spin because UFC you don't wear clothes. to be able to grab a hold of someone's clothing, like a person with a leather jacket. If you're talking shit and you have a leather jacket on, you're with a guy who knows judo, you are beyond fucked. This guy might as well have cannons coming out of his body. You're doomed. You're 100% doomed. He's going to grab that leather jacket and basically this handles and he's going to throw you up in the air and he's going to hit you with the world. The whole world is below, and he's gonna drive you into the world, and you're so fucked, and you don't even realize it.

Never. Never, man. I don't know. I don't want to have nothing to do with that. I just get away. I would never want to get in a fist fight.

You have a grown world star hip-hop? That shit's all day every day. There's plenty of videos. Most of the time, nothing happens. But the one time when shit does happen, if you don't know how to defend yourself, you're really fucked.

That's unquestionable, but isn't that just like the guy who sits on the couch and never goes into the woods because he doesn't want to get tired? I know. It's very simple because like, here we are. I'm 51 years old and I'm in and it all works. So even though I've been injured, I'm right here, everything works.

I would have 100% done it and I probably would have a much harder time having this conversation. That's right. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

There's no getting away from that. It that is the unfortunate reality that every fighter accepts. There's no getting away from that. There's there's an absolute possibility and it's not just your head. It's also your joints. A big part is your back and your neck. I know many guys that have neck impingements and discernations and fused neck discs and then nerve pinched. where their nerves are impinged to the point where they have atrophy in their arms. I know several guys who have that, where they have one arm that's smaller than the other arm, and it severely impedes their ability to move and they used to be world champions. Two guys that have been on the show, Boss Root and Pat Miletich, two of the greatest of all time. Both guys have a one small arm and one regular size arm, because of neck impingments for their nerves are literally pinched down by all the swelling and scar tissue and damaged discs.

Well, the jujitsu world I think you would there's there's two different worlds right there's the MMA world which incorporates all the different martial arts and then there's the jujitsu world and the jujitsu world I think you would keep out. Yes, you would love it because it's basically But to call it chess is not quite fair right because it's more complex than chess There's much more going on with degrees of freedom or so high But it's also easier to win if someone's better than chess. Because even if someone is fairly competent in chess, we'll take a few moves to beat them. And you just do if someone's fairly competent and the other one is a master, probably crush it very quickly. But when you watch two really high level guys trying to set each other up, it's this crazy rolling exercise and leverage and position and then the knowledge of moves.

It's crazy if you don't know. It's one of my more difficult challenges of being a commentator is when the fight goes to the ground explaining to people watching at home. What he wants to do right now is get his right leg over his arm. And as soon as he does that now that arm is stuck, he's in trouble right now. Yeah, you know, and like to try to explain that to people so they can follow along. Oh, I see I see and he's gonna grab that it's gonna arches back and he tapped and you people go oh and he gets people really excited about your jiu-jitsu because they see that and he goes oh, this is like really complicated like he's got there's like a dance he's doing and the other guy's trying to resist the day when the first time I saw the Gracie breakdown of

minimal obvious this figure there is this even there is some we could even be safer if we eliminated weight cutting the weight cutting is the number one health issue in the sport in my opinion yeah number two is the brain damage and the impact and you know broken bones things along those lines but the number one is weight cutting because it's so unnecessary it's such a such an issue that needs to be addressed because these guys want to compete at the highest weight possible so do you know how it works no Okay, say if you were going to compete in the 170 pound division, but you actually weighed 190. What you would do is you would wait until you would follow a pretty strict diet, keep your body weight in your fat at a certain level, and then when it comes down to a few days before, you would dehydrate yourself pretty radically. And then rehydrate yourself scientifically using a bunch of guys like George Lockhart guys were experts in this and then they'll give you the exact right amount of nutrients right amount of potassium and zinc and they want to replenish all of your electrolytes and get you in a perfect balance but you're still compromised. And if you don't have a guy like a George Lockhart or someone who's a real expert in nutrition and understands biology and can get you back into that position, you're most likely going to compete compromised, but you're going to accept that significant compromising because you're going to be a bigger person than the person you're fighting. But they also, like in boxing in particular, the vast majority of deaths have occurred in the lighter weight divisions. And a lot of it is not just because of the head trauma, but because it's head trauma to someone who's dehydrated. That's interesting. Yeah, it's like it sucks. And it's contrary to what martial arts are supposed to be about. martial arts supposed to be about skill for skill. It's not supposed to be about cheating. And the cheating thing is like, you're dehydrating yourself. It's like sanction cheating. You're saying you're 170 pounds. But you're like, if you say the 170 pound champion and get on the scale is 193. What the fuck's going on? This isn't 170 pounds.

Well, you can lose weight the right way. Look, if somebody wants to compete at 170 pounds, in my humble opinion, they should actually weigh 170 pounds. My friend Cam Haines is a ultramarathon runner and one of the things that he does when he gets ready for ultramarathons is he loses body weight, but he doesn't have any body weight to lose. So he'll burn 3,000 calories and eat 2,000 calories and that's how he loses weight. He lets his body eat itself. So he gets down to the 160s and that's when he runs these gigantic long races like 240 miles, but I know he's done this. You can do this. Like you don't have to dehydrate yourself, but they choose to dehydrate themselves because they replenish and then they get much bigger when they get inside the octagon. When he's 165, he's actually 165. That's just what he weighs and that's the best way to run 240 miles. So he does it through discipline. But these guys that are doing it and it's not their fault because it's already been established. It's a part of the sport. It's been there for years and years and years and years and it's sanctioned cheating and everybody does it. And it's the worst part of the sport because it's really damaging to your kidneys. Terrible for your organs. Your body starts to shut down when you do it too often. Your body doesn't want to lose weight anymore. So it starts to really hold onto that water. And guys fall asleep and pass out and bang their heads off walls and fights get canceled. Like championship level fights get canceled because guys black out and crack their head off the wall. And this is happened in the UFC before. It's just super, super unnecessary and unfortunate. And part of it is because there's not enough weight classes. There's like, you know, there's 155, then there's 170. The difference to 155 and 170 is not just 15 pounds, because if you actually weigh 155, and this guy's dropping down to 170, that motherfucker could be 190 plus. And he's just figuring out a way to cut weight to get down to there. And that happens all the time. So you're dealing with, you know, it could be 25, 30 pounds difference between you two guys. If you, if you actually weigh what the weight class is, when you get into the octagon, so people are forced to drop weight. They're forced to go lower. If they want to compete at a world class level, they're forced to take this extra risk. and it could be mitigated. It could all be stopped by hydration tests. The UFC could step in. All the athletic commissions could step in and say enough is enough. You're going to fight it what you weigh and we're going to give you more weight classes so you can figure out what's the weight for you to be best at. And I hope it doesn't take someone dying before they figure this out because it's one of those things that people have done like circumcision they've done it forever so they just keep doing it, but if they just started doing it tomorrow people like why did you cut that baby's dick? Are you fucking crazy? Well, I've always cut babies dicks. I've been cutting babies dicks for years. Like this is right. You get used to it. Well, it's not just you dish. I'm Catholic my dick are cut It's like practiced across the board under the guys of, you know, being sanitary. It's an prevention of age. There's all these stupid reasons to cut dicks. But really, it's just a tradition that doesn't make any goddamn sense. Now it's not the best analogy to weight cutting.

Yeah, Sean Carroll has done a really good job of trying to explain things, Neil DeGrasse Tyson's done a really good job of trying to explain things.

Yeah, I still have no idea what the fuck he said. Exactly. Well, like, my red is book. Yeah. And after I read his book, that was the number one question I had. I said, okay, I need to explain to me what is gauge symmetry. What does that mean? It's so weird that he didn't, I don't think he expected me to just bust it out.

Isn't really what the... So you're saying the matter in the universe is moving outwards? Is that what the universe is expanding?

The infinite universe is getting more infinite, or?

Yeah, I couldn't enter.

Well, I don't get anything. Quite honestly, I'm not being self-deprecating. I don't get the big bang. Yeah. I don't get it at all.

That's an interesting way. That makes sense.

So this is why quantum mechanics is so confusing, quantum physics are so confusing to people. Well, because they hear that and they go, OK, this is confusing. It's confusing when in my head like Jello.

Well, maybe even weird question is Not just, it's quantum mechanics in an adolescent state of understanding. I mean, is it part of the problem that they don't know enough yet? And they're trying to like explain what they do know, what they can prove on paper. And for a person like me, like, well, what do you know? And they're like, well, we know probabilities. We know this. We know that. And a person like me doesn't have any studying in it. Just goes, whoa. What does that mean?

So back to Gage Theory. Gage symmetry.

That looks like some trippy screensaver on your laptop.

And it's and it is the earth. Those are the continents.

For folks at home that are just listening, and they, well, what the fuck are these guys talking about? What is the name of this video, Jamie? It's not a video.

Planet HOPF. If for anybody who wants to look at this, if you're just listening and you have no idea why I'm freaking out.

Now, do you understand any of this, Jamie?

What's the fuck? How's this happening now? Exactly. It does look fucking crazy.

Jamie will say thirty was thirty five thousand yeah something like that something crazy like that right just go a thousand say base what would you get an internet connection let's take guess what do you think it is I don't know if I can't remember I want to say it's thirty five thousand what do you think it was twenty nine twenty nine twenty nine okay what's uh... the highest was the highest one is a key to all right key to the second right is it is ever the highest yeah

The Himalands. What's that?

Right.

So a level that we all agree upon.

This makes sense to you? Yes. It makes sense, right? But now explain it. Say what he said.

Right. Right. I guess. Yeah. It would be really difficult for me to recall a day from now. Maybe let's the weed my Papa mushroom cap see what's up. It's still in reference to quantum physics, like how you would you gauge symmetry?

Well, it depends on what you throw.

Rock is better than scissors.

Why rock is better than rock? I don't get it.

But by saying Brock is better than Brock, you're denying the fact they're exactly the same.

You're not addressing it.

What we're looking at folks for people who are just listening, we're looking at, if you've never seen those esher edges, those sketches, they're very strange because what there are is a bunch of staircases that appear to always be going downhill even if one of them is above the other one. It's very strange.

and this one we're watching animated guy roll down this staircase constantly even though it really looks like somehow another it must go up somewhere but you don't ever see it going up but it's also a factor of the illusion of perspective and how it's drawn and and you know playing games with lines exactly but

Right. I see what you're saying. Sort of. But so this is, like what Feynman said, if you think you know quantum physics, you don't know quantum physics.

If I got it all the way around that way? Yeah. Mr. Jiu-Jitsu, man. I don't know what to have to. I don't have to help myself.

Right. Now, I'm screwed. If I don't bring it back underneath.

It seems like some very odd ethnic dance.

This is so bizarre to want to open an animation.

So what is happening in the 720 degrees of rotation in the quantum world?

That's a good long pause like it. Yeah. And where does this fit in in our model of the universe? Like, what is the function of this? Why is it there? What is it? How do we know it's there?

Now, when you say three most important important in how it's applicable to everyday life, or important in how it's given us an understanding in quantum physics, or important how it's understanding, it's understanding is significant to quantum physics.

Yeah, we've showed a video in that recently, see some Thailand or bomb.

So it seems to me that there's a small number of people that are studying this stuff, that they're getting past biology, they're getting past gravity, climate change, all those different variables that we're constantly dealing with and they're they're getting to the very things that make everything and what is it under the wiring lift lift up the board what's going on in here right it's like getting to a computer down to the zero and one logic gates right yeah so that thing

How so?

Why would the play be over just because we've discovered all the neutrinos?

Yeah.

So it's just denser, but it's almost identical copy.

Jesus, you confuse the shit on me. Are you with this?

Do you think that the teaching of groups and a lot of these concepts in high school would facilitate a better understanding of it from the general public and adulthood and the hell, yes. Hell yeah. And it would, what do you think is the resistance to this? It's just too complex or not applicable to jobs. You know, is that the idea behind it is not something that you use in everyday life so that it's just too weird to think about the fact that there's cousins to the electron that are fat. Yeah, no. It's much worse than this. Bodybuilder cousin to the

Yeah, one of your cousins is made out of land.

Have you thought about what are the causes of these different levels of perception? Is it education? Is it genetics? Is it environmental? Is it some sort of chemical balance of the mind, like what do you think causes people to be more perceptive to some of these concepts?

You might have to spark that joint back up again.

And these are discovered by people that are trying to figure out the nature of reality. They're discovered by people who are trying to find more of these bizarre equation. Who's discovering these in what's the impetus?

Beyond Space Time. Oh, this is my AD surface product.

You don't remember this? I do now. Yeah, you cut off my story, man. See that? Yeah. I'm sorry. That's all right. Go for it.

Put that back up. So, what is that?

And does this accurate, like when you're looking at this image that we're seeing, does that make sense to you?

No idea. But this is an accurate representation if you're looking at it in two dimensions.

Because E8 are the aliens.

Yeah. I've been, I mean, I'll go to this later. I don't want to interrupt your story again.

So this is like when Jody Foster was in the movie contact and they were getting them signals about how to make the time machine maybe are the portal machine.

What is it? Right? Well, what is everything, right? What is the whole thing?

So it's like a zero point of creation.

Hey, zero point of creation. Right. That's a sexy word. Yeah, sexy word. But like if we're saying the big bang existed and that means some point in the history of the universe, it was this really tiny thing and it decided for whatever reason something happened and it became this enormous thing. Sure. Possibly enormous thing. Yeah. There had to be a point. where it started.

We absolutely know that it was tiny. Yeah, small. Like smaller than the head of a pin, the whole thing.

and possibly long ago, 14 billion years ago, in our minds, for a guy like you, mathematics, you see it on numbers and paper, it all computes, you see the numbers, 14 billion is a number that makes sense. But conceptually, like for a dummy like me, 14 billion is like, if I really, if I'm being honest, do I really, you think I really have an accurate understanding what 14 billion is?

Right, but you know where 100 yards is.

If I see 100 yards, I'm like, that's too far to shoot a bow.

Like you got to get a little closer to be.

Well, you would know distance. It's a rational distance that you see in a daily basis. Right. 100 yards is a long distance. A mile gets a little weird. Like, is that a mile away? How far is that? Oh, it's six miles away. Wow. I didn't think it was that far. Right. There's there's weirdness in distance, right? But when you get to a hundred and forty million miles. Okay. Yeah. I give out. But you get to four.

It's humbling. Right. But then there's the concept of infinite, right? Like this is one of the things that Krauss said, or maybe it was Sean Carroll, that said, it's really not that we know that we can see 14 billion years ago. Right. It's like, but that's just as far back as we're capable of seeing right now. And even if we did go further, the light is actually moving slower, like you wouldn't be able to see it.

I really appreciate that you're understanding this in a way that you hope that someone can understand.

But you're explaining it very well that the problem is for someone like me, I lack the tools to put, I don't have enough open slots. for these concepts. It's like, if you were explaining to me complex arguments in French, but I didn't speak French. So you're saying, you know, bonjour, it means this. And then you're explaining all these other words. And then you thrown it all together, I'm like, what? And then it's cultural references. And then you have to deal with the fact that there's like some historical precedent to certain types of behavior that are taking a consideration because these are French people that have lived in this way. Oh, wow. Okay. Well, that's nothing compared to what you're trying to do.

Well, I definitely ameed it. I'll stop it. Listen. I know me better than you know me.

It was crazy. Yeah, you trying to explain fucking quirks to people. There'd be some real humor in that if you could boil it down. Yeah, three quarks go into a nuclear. Yeah, there's like a way to do it. I don't know.

What was he saying? Do you remember? I forgot.

Yeah, that sounds like Brian. Yeah. He reads a lot. But it's a clever boy.

You know how you feel when you talk about the hop thing, that it's a part of everything. It's one of the most important things, and yet very few people know what it is. Maybe a thousand people understand it on the whole world. What's odd is that number is probably identical to the number of legitimate professional stand-up comedians in the world. When I say legitimate, I mean someone who can craft a new hour every two years, who does Netflix specials, who headlines all over the country. It's small. Good travel, all over the world and do stand up. It's an insanely small number of humans.

Yep. Yep. Guys that I would pay to see live or women that I'd pay to see live, it's less than 50.

Well that's where our comparisons end because pretty much anybody can do stand up if you put enough time to it if you're silly if you figure out the craft but what you guys are doing is not just really rare but also the the barrier for entry like the cost of entry is exceptionally high Like you have to spend an inordinate amount of time studying and understanding this stuff just to get to a base level of what you've been able to explain. You've been able to explain like some really difficult concepts to the lay person that must have taken you fucking eons to learn and understand all your study of mathematics and of geometry and of all of them. But I'm an imposter. How so? Well, I'm not a physicist. Right, but you understand it. Maybe you don't practice physics.

Well, the 10,000 hours thing to me is it's cute, but it doesn't factor in for phenomes. There's a lot of people that come into anything, whatever it is, with some natural abilities that are pretty undeniable. Um, you know, that's a weird, that's a weird equation.

So what's the traditional way of using it? What would it sound like?

But who knew that that's the cooler?

Or you could be annoying. Like a lot of people are like, turn that fucking guy off. Why is he playing that goddamn harmonica? I don't want to hear that.

You're already tainted in these people's estimation. All right. Attention, hoar out there.

But what's worse? A harmonica or a guy brings a guitar and starts singing folk songs at a party. On the animal house effect.

Yeah. And beat him over the head with a guitar. Yeah, but if you can shred, he's going to be fine. It's great if you were looking to hear someone shred.

But I mean, there's an equal number of things that people would say that are like the harmonica. Like you should be able to do slam poetry. Right. Everyone should be able to do slam poetry. If you can't do slam poetry, I can feed myself. I can do slam poetry. I'll show up at a party and everyone wants to hear slam poetry. Is that true?

It's fascinating to me that harmonicas are this little tiny thing that people have fake. Like there's not other ones, right? There's like other things are like these big all trumpet-looking things. Yeah. Like a harmonica's this little thing. Yeah. Like how many little things do you blow? Well that's that that powerful in terms of like the kind of music that it makes. Exactly. Is that weird? It is weird. Like there's no like balls, right? It's always that. It's always that little candy bar-looking thing. Like there's nothing.

Is there anything comparable in terms of like musical instruments? Is that little? No. That has that kind of sound.

But it's in that weird. Like there's two buzz and there's other things that are similar. And then you get to like trombones and trumpets. Everything kind of makes sense. Then you get this little fucking thing. So the candy bar thing. Right. It's a mouth heart. A mouth heart. Ooh. What's that other one? They're going like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no word for it is a weird word for that thing y'all harp y'all harp y'all harp y'all harp y'all harp y'all harp y'all harp y'all harp y'all harp y'all harp y'all harp y'all harp y'all harp y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y

Spoons are good. Well, how about that fucking Australian one? Well, they blow into that big Twitter.

Yeah. That ones, the most ridiculous. That is like how hard were those guys tripping when they came up with that sound. Boy, oh, boy. Why, why, why, why, why, why.

Thank you. If you're on hate Ashbury and there's a dude And he's got one of them diggery dudes out and a fucking hat. You're supposed to throw some money in there just at a respect. This guy brought a goddamn diggery dude at the corner. Well, you know the coolest recent one.

Give me some noise from this motherfucker. Just give me a little bit. That is DMT music. I know. If you're tripping balls and somebody plays that, they'll take you to a new dimension. So you've never access.

really interesting music to listen to it's straight is the kind of mind mind blowing well there's also there's I don't know was that one or the something dived at all there's one of those similar Christian based dimethyl trip to mean ayahuasca type churches that they sing songs about Jesus they trip balls and sing songs about Jesus And what's really weird about DMT in particular, and I guess you could say the same of mushrooms, but mushrooms apparently when it synthesizes, it's real similar in chemical content to what dimethyl trip to mean is. I'm gonna fuck this up, but I think it's NN dimethyl trip to mean is dimethyl trip to mean, and then when it's synthesized by the body processes, Silicide, and I think it produces something called four fox, four oloxy, and dimethyl trip to me. I think it's real close. I might have fucked that up, but I think it's so close that it's like their cousins. Okay. So there's something with about music in these things. And one of the best ways to get out of a trip, if you're really tripping balls with mushrooms, is to sing your way out of it. You can sing your way out of a bad trip. You can actually control the trip with good music. And one of the things that's really constant with DMT is these ecaros that the shaman will sing. And these ecaros with the like thimbles and like a little bit of drum and these like really rhythmic singing. It makes the hallucination dance in like a really obvious tangible way. It moves around itself and it changes and guides the trip.

That's one right there. This is one I've personally experienced. I've actually tripped listening to this song. And it was like these geometric patterns, these entities that seem to be conscious. They were like moving around. This is the guy. This is the Iowa Scarrow. This is the shaman blowing tobacco. This is part of the ritual. They actually blow tobacco on you while you do that. So this guy, which is this little rattle and singing, and sometimes there's actual singing, not just whistling, but in their language, this beautiful soft rhythmic sort of song, and the hallucinations dance to this sound, to this music. Like they're supposed to dance to it, like they're part of it. like it's not just that you're having music on top of the psychedelic experience, but that they merge. The image and the psychedelic experience experiences a hundred percent affected by this. So it's not just that there's chemicals that are interacting with your brain. You're doing something too by responding to that music and then the music is doing something by enhancing the way your perception of this experience is and all of it is dancing together like they belong together. It's fascinating shit.

Yeah, I mean, maybe.

You're like, what? You probably need one. You know, someone at a bar that's like, like, we're going to drink this. We're going to drink this for good intentions. Yeah, no one's going to be grabbing anybody's dick. No one's going. No one's getting rude here. There would be no wedges, right? There'd be nothing. Nothing rude will be said. You will think for a good solid five seconds before any hasty moves. like let's let's let's understand that I want to get great benefit kind of get great benefit from this in terms of our ability to be loose and to be silly and to to enjoy each other's company but if if a demon comes out right in this time you must address this demon personally on your own don't pull the demon out and throw it at the party Right. This is good stuff. That's what happens. So, you know, we had drugs that thrown that deep into it.

Yeah, and if what if the worm actually was psychedelic? Like what if there was a way we can genetically engineer a worm to be intensely psychedelic? Like the worm literally is made out of ayahuasca.

Well, don't they do weird shit like that where they they'll take tomatoes and they'll like use fucking frog DNA in the tomato to make it live longer?

They can do that right there is something like that, right?

Yeah. What in the holy fuck? Yeah. So, how weird is that? GM potato uses frog gene to resist pathogens. Like that's, that's real.

So what were we on before this we was talking about what we got to rabbits. Well, I had a point on to Kilo with the rock. So what if we engineer that little worm to be like 100% DMT 100% DMT or you get down to that worm and whoever chugs to the bottom and and choose on that worm just Oh my, oh my, oh my, oh yeah. You immediately transform, what is the fuck am I watching? These are these glowing rabbits that is so weird.

Here's a problem man. My kids have rabbits and their cunts. Those rabbits are little assholes. They don't give a fuck about each other. We have two of them is so rude. This is what happens. They're both males unfortunately. Here's what happens when you get two male bunnies and you put them into gigantic chicken coop. They fuck each other up. It's bunny UFC every day with these little assholes. All they do is kick each other's ass. They chase each other around this chicken coop and when they get a whole of each other, they bite each other and they kick each other. They fuck each other up. because they're both boys and they don't want a boy to be running shit. Is these two bunnies fucking each other up? Dude, this is what they do. Bunnies are fucking ruthless to each other. These two little assholes just chase each other all day long and beat the shit out of each other. That's all they do.

I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna encourage there's a series of followers coming. One of them is actually missing. Here's what happened. We are chicken coop burnt down from the fire, but the chicken survived. One of them got scorched. They all got fucking PTSD. It's crazy. I go near them. But they're alive, all right. So we had a maneuver them and move them. But one bunny's missing. We're found one bunny and one bunny's missing. So I think it's better for the one bunny that survived and the one bunny that probably got jacked by an eagle or something like that. That's a rap song. You had a good life. You'd be the shit out of your friend for a year and a half solid just kicking each other's ass. It's fucking horrible. The ears are totally jacked. Like the ears are shredded like an old back to the death that you missed. I don't think so because there's no body. I think I think a bunny got out and it probably ran away or who knows the fuck happened and coyote got it or some shit. I mean, there's a lot of hawks. A lot of hawks in my neighborhood. It's most likely a hawk. Yeah. Yeah. whatever. Just one little bunny's by himself now. He's like, the other asshole. They're both assholes to each other. It's not like one good bunny. They just find each other and they're like, fuck you. I imagine just that's all you do for years. Right. That's, that's bunny life. You get two meal bunnies together and every day is fuck you fuck you fuck you. They run at each other and one one's always trying to get away. One's always trying to eat and the other one to jump on them and start biting them and kicking them and the other one will do the same and they'll rotate.

Well, they're probably really horny and lonely and confused. I suppose. Yeah, I mean, with the fuck, there's only two of them. They need to get to Israel. Stat.

Someone talked to him. I know. If it's possible for you to get to Jerusalem, that's your people. They'll just, you'll have a party over there. Everything will be great. Jewish food. Everyone speaking Hebrew. Everyone's united.

It's rough. It's crazy to think that it's a country with zero Jews. Like zero. Yeah. Yeah. Nope. The whole country. Like whoa. Whoa. That is kind of this thing. That is no melting pot here, sir. Zero. Zero melting. Just one ingredient. Whole pot. It's all stew.

Yeah. Two dudes that hate each other. Exactly. Very polarizing. True. I don't know how we got it. Oh, glowing bunnies. I'm not getting any fucking bunnies, man. All right. And if you get to go in a girl together, you got to fix the girl. Otherwise, you're going to have a million bunnies. And they're all going to be kicking each other's asses. It's all they do.

Well, it's really fucked up is reading about animals that fight like right out of the womb. How they kill their part. They can't look at the siblings.

What are those? In Nazca boobie. Did they live in the Nazca lines? What are these boobies?

I'm trying to remember what I was reading about where obligate civil society. When one animal comes out, the other one tries to kill the other one, almost immediately. Oh. Hainus. Oh. Hainus. Hainus. There's been evidence of Hainus attacking their sibling while it's in the ambionic sack. And when they come out, the bigger one or the stronger one of the one of whatever one's healthy will almost immediately start attacking its sibling and try to kill it. Pull up that if that's true. I'm pretty sure that's true. I went into this, uh, I went into this crazy rabbit hole about hanging this recently. What a bizarre animal that is.

Yeah, the false penis is just one aspect. Yeah, everything everything about 20% of the women die. Okay, here it goes. I'll look at civil civilized when a sibling almost always ends up being killed. Fugitive civil side means the suicide. Oh, faculty.

Faculty of civil civil side means a civil side may or may not occur based on environmental conditions. Okay. So it's sometimes will happen if there's none of resources.

Well, that isn't sane. Right, so mommy... Look at his beating it to death. So this is because there's not enough food.

That is insane.

And the mom doesn't give a fuck about it.

The mom's excited. This one's dying. No. It's not fucked up. And the mom's like, yeah, mom's excited.

Well, nature's pretty brutal. Pretty brutal. No, it's, it's bizarre seeing this from, oh God, I don't want to see this thing slowly died dude. It's bizarre seeing it from birds, but I think it's even more ruthless the way the lions. Yeah, hyenas. Yeah, hyenas killing their siblings. That almost, I think they were saying it's pretty universal. When the first one comes out, they try to kill us out on.

So what happens? Same kind of thing. The hyena gets out and immediately starts killing its sibling. They're fighting to the death right out of the womb. Look at this fucking mad battle as babies. Look, it's got still got the sack on it and they're just trying to kill each other. This is a particularly ruthless animal. They were saying that 60% of hyenas die as they're trying to get out of the tube. Wow.

I didn't know that. Yeah, 20% of women die, whether females rather die when they're giving birth.

Well, it's also, they have a, no, female hyenas. Oh, that's giant dick.

No. Female hyenas die 20% of the time when they're giving birth because the baby doesn't come out right. Like they have this crazy, you know, they have a faux penis that is actually a vagina. It's an enormous, huge, and gorge clitoris. It's far bigger than the males. They have to pull it back so the male can compilate with them. But then when they give birth, it has to come out of that dick. And it doesn't always come out right. So it's system. Yeah, Google that because I might be wrong about the numbers, but it's some exorbitant number of babies die and a huge number of women die of women. I keep saying women. Female pain is died. Yeah, that's why fuck up. But they're also weird and that they're way bigger than the males. And that's because the males won't let the babies eat. So that's one of the things they think. Like if something is a scavenger, the males are trying to push out everything smaller. So because of the females after getting a go fuck off, the kid has to eat, like even if it's their kid.

Yeah, 60% of them die on the way out. Yeah. And I think it's 20% of the females die during childbirth as well. Pretty sure that's what I read, which is fucking bananas. I mean, 60% though. Imagine 60% of all kids die on the way out. And then the ones that don't die, if you got two of them, one of them kills the other one.

Oh, it's a meteorarchal society. And they get birthed through that fake penis. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, what is the purpose of the fake penis? The fake penis is a dominate the men. They get on top of the band and they go, whosin' bitch, so it's gonna be. And they got a big old strap on. They peg their men. All male hyenas are cucks. They all take it's crazy. It's crazy.

I think it's 20%. Yeah.

Yes. I've seen one. Have you?

The full, the full clitoris? No, I know. I'm never seen it like a biological.

It's not allowed to be shown.

Yeah, I think I was in trouble. Well, you can pull it up, but just don't show the world, just show us. Okay. Yeah. If you, I think if you put that on YouTube, we'll be demonetized and possibly kick off the network to Google that yourself. Yeah, it's Google that you wear it, and be careful of the wrath of God.

So it's all that stuff on the outside.

We're going to get in trouble. They get mad at us. Does that picture make you horny? No, not at all. Makes you afraid, doesn't it? It seems like an alien. It should shoot like a big bugger. Like, that's the Ridley Scott alien, the face hugger. Yeah. Ooh. Well, just a, look, it's very weird that we've just come to accept what the shape of the body is. Right. Body is very bizarre. I mean, if we were all shaped like stingrays and we saw a person, we'd be like, what in the holy fuck is that thing? Yeah. Whether it's articulating fingers and it's moving its eyeballs around sniffing things with nostrils. Like, we just accept the fact that this shape is normal, that it makes sense.

Well, it really doesn't seem like anything else. Right. You know, whether it's a cuddle fish or whether it's an octopus. Like, you're like, oh, it's like kind of like a squid. Like, yeah, a little bit like a person's like a monkey. Yeah, but like real different.

Right. But they regenerate. That's another part of it that's bizarre.

I'd like how they regenerate up to a point. Like nature will say, yeah, you can grow an arm back, can't grow a head back. Sorry, fuckface. That's a wrap. Yeah. You know, you lose your head, nature's like, ah, you gave up a big piece. You gave up the queen. It's over. Yeah. Games over. See, if you lose your tail, like, ah, it's debatable. Do you grow your tail back? We could do that. I think Lizard's grow their tail back, you know, but they only grow like most of it. They don't grow the whole thing.

I don't. But I mean, just saying it's weird. Like you can't like chop them in half from the waist down. They don't seal up and grow a new waist. Like that's it. You can only get rid of the limbs. But you can get rid of the limbs. Like nature is evolved a strategy for dealing with predation. Just give him the arm. Give him the arm. Take it. Pop.

Probably good move. Otherwise, Jackson Beverly Hills would be getting new bodies. Just getting their head screwed on to new bodies. Yeah, getting new heads. Yeah, people would figure out a way to transplant their brains. If it wants to lift forever. I just have an 800 year old brain and talk about your older cycle victim. Yeah. What people are going to start doing?

Do you think that's what they did? It was probably hard to get funding. People thought you were playing God.

Right. Right. Some atheist ass scientists.

Yeah, that's what's also like we think of it as like okay, it's one thing if you're trying out medicine on a monkey that might save babies But it's another thing if you just say what happens if I cut this monkey's head off stick it on another monkey with all this crazy I don't know if you've ever seen this the Russians

Yeah. Aldane has one of the greatest quotes. Not only is the universe queer than you suppose, it's queer than you can suppose.

Well, we're really committed to the idea that all the stuff that we can do, manipulating the planet, sending rockets in the space, that that's more important than what it does. We're really committed to this, that our significance, although it's clearly, if we work together, we believe in a sense of community, it's more important to each other to us. It is, but to the whole thing, is it really more important? Says who? I mean, if people didn't exist, if we were wiped off the planet, all the other animals would be okay. They really would be okay. I mean, we would gain and lose more predators and we wouldn't be controlling the population. Sure. But if all the ants went away, that would be a wrap. Yeah. That would be a wrap. We're done. There's no more people. This has been widely decided that if we lost all insect, well, especially all ants, like it probably would collapse all the ecosystems that we need to sustain human life.

Every of the ants would be only one left! Well, we wouldn't be able to make it, but a lot of shit would make it. A lot of other stuff would make it. That's true, but, you know, the thing that I think... Maybe we'd make it anyway. Maybe they're wrong. Yeah. Don't understand humans. Try to freak this out. Yeah, maybe. Don't read that. Find out if that's true. If all ants died, human beings would go extinct, just Google that. I think I read a paper proposing that and they were explaining the critical role that ants play in all these different ecosystems and how the biomass of ants worldwide is equal to or greater than the biomass of human beings.

I'm pretty sure that's true. And so, but our idea is that we're more important. Well, we are.

I have a 70 inch television. And I have an eye watch. Yeah. It must be more important. The stupid fucking ant was dirt house. If I can just piss on your house while I go jogging. Yeah. I'm a more important thing in you. Yeah, I don't I don't have your people by pissing on you. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously nature doesn't want to protect you. You get your house in the dirt. It's a hole. It's a mound.

It's right here. Rationalizations. I get it, bro.

Find out the biomass of ants because that's even trippier.

I'm not anti-human.

I'm just neutral.

Biological, neutral. If I just looked at it objectively. Yeah, I don't think so. You think it's more significant because we're more significant to each other.

I'm sorry. Then you want to take it? Ants do our ants outway humans. Individual workers weigh an average of 1 to 5 milligrams according to the species. When combined all ants in the world taken together way about as much as all human beings. That's interesting. That's not right. Wow. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's fucking bananas. Ooh, they are 15% to 20% of the terrestrial animal biomass. And in tropical regions, we're answering especially abundant. They monopolize 25% or more. Ooh. I'm an after. I have a buddy, Brian Kown. Brian Kown used to, when he was in college, he spent some time in the jungle. He was thinking he was going to be a biologist. He was going to study insect. He was going to be in What is it, an insectivore? So they had to sleep in these elevated tents and they had to paint like some sort of like turpentine type chemical all over the posts because if they didn't, the ants would crawl up the posts and eat you in your sleep. What literally climb in your ear and start eating you and tell everybody and you would die that way. Like people have died elephants. have been eaten by ants. And he said, you can hear them walking in the jungle. Like in the night, you hear, you hear the footsteps of fucking ants, because there's so many of them. If you're in the wrong place at the wrong time, and there's a path of these motherfuckers moving your way, and they send a signal that we got something here, and they crawl up you, they just all start crawling up you. And there's so many of them you can't avoid them.

the way they cooperate is so uncanny when those leaf cutter ants design those intricate cities with they have places where things ferment and we're we're gases are released through holes in the ground and it doesn't make any sense that this little tiny brain could figure out this enormous structure but somehow another when combined and it's not a tiny brain right not just one version of this but millions and millions of these designs appear all over the world and they see if you could find that video if they fill the leaf cutter ant colony they filled the the home with molten metal Yeah, it was something like that.

Yeah, I think they flooded it with concrete. They flooded concrete and all the holes and then they dug out everything around it so you could see this structure and then they explained what there's this is really like well thought out like they have portals and they have the this is how they get the food in and this is where they take the leaves and they they let them rot and they turn to mulch and there's like a gas really

Yeah, this is the video we're talking about. So this is, it's really huge too. And they have these looks like tunnel systems and then they lead to these big circular areas where they're really almost uniform in size. It's really strange way or similar in size. So they have these pathways that go to these like rooms, these circular rooms and there's just this incredible network of these tubes and circular rooms that they uncover and it's fucking enormous. When you look at how big this thing, I mean if you had to look at how big is that? Was that 80 feet across, 90 feet across or something like that? So they're continuing to dig this up. They're not even done in this video here, but you see all the pipes that extend to the left and to the right. So they've developed some sort of complex civilization, some weird bizarre network of these passageways and rooms, and they do it just like this everywhere. So some pattern has emerged in their species that has set them up to act as this collective group and then operate in this similar fashion all over the world wherever they exist in that sort of uh, with that kind of dirt they can manipulate right that. That's that alone is one of that is a massive mystery and how a little tiny thing with a brain that's almost imperceptibly small This is like tiny little pad. It is a little head. How does he figure out that hole? How does he figure out tunnels?

Did you see this recent discovery of a 25-foot-long sea worm that apparently is not just one organism? Has like many organisms together combined?

Yeah, you gotta see this fucking thing. It's insane. And I think this is a very recent discovery at least one this large. And these guys are swimming around with this thing. It looks impossible. It looks like they landed on another planet and they're experiencing this thing. Like this thing, this, whatever this is, I'm pretty sure with what I've read. I've read it really quickly as I was running out the door that it exists. Large 8-millimeter worm-like sea creature stuns New Zealand divers. So they're looking at this thing, but I think there's many different organisms inside of it. I don't think it's one individual organism. Yeah, it's made up of hundreds of thousands of organisms. I've never seen it. Yeah, like what? What is it? Like what does that mean? This is a weird tube for folks that are watching this or listening to this rather what we're looking at is these divers that are just tripping balls here They're like what and the fuck is this and it looks like like an enormous tube like jellyfish type creature That's in the water. It almost looks semi translucent, right?

It's enormous. It's so big. It's like the size and what moves and changes, but it's sometimes it's larger than a human waste or a human chest. And other times it gets real skinny, but it's fucking huge. Like, look at that. What is that thing? I'm stunned. Well, the fact that it's, I don't understand what they're saying, that it's made up of hundreds of thousands of organisms. Like, how is it made up of different stuff? Like, what is it?

Really? The Portuguese man of war is not like a, like, one thing? Look at the size of that thing above the water. That is fucking crazy. Pyrison. Pyrison. Just whatever the ocean is. Like that. Like we're all, we're trying to look into space. Like to wonder if there's aliens out there. They're here. I know. They're right fucking there. Like whether there's cuddle fish or octopus or this goddamn thing. Whoa. Pyrosome. What the fuck? That thing looks like a geometric pattern. That's a nice journey. Look at that one on the upper right hand corner, Jamie. What is that weird looking fucking? What is that thing? 60 foot long jet powered animal. Oh, God. It's like a civilization. It's like a ship of these things flying through the ocean. What have you ever seen this before? What the fuck is that? That is so weird looking. A come on man. That looks like something from avatar. Does it? Yeah. It totally does, right? Like something that comes off that tree.

Yeah. Tell James Cameron. look at this thing so this is what those things are but the other one is a very smooth or slow resolution and we can't get a really good look at it but that's what it is it's this collective group of hundreds of thousands of organisms that combined together and they're getting jacked by that turtle all you bitches what a weird weird organism look at that look at this picture what if you stuck your arm in it and I just Dude, how bizarre is it that there's a civilization of these things all combined. But what they are is individuals that operate as a giant tube. You never heard of this before. No. I'm so happy we found something you don't know about. That was, that's how fucking weird one man. But yeah, the idea that the ocean is really an alien world.

There are new things. We've kind of sort of mapped out the... Dressed real stuff, more or less. Yeah, there's like a few weird things you've found in the jungle, weird bugs. Like where's that?

It's the craziest looking thing ever. It's deer with fangs. Like crocodile looking fangs that come hanging down like this.

Oh, it's bad. It's a weird little animal. It's on a big deer either. Well, do you not look at that thing? Vampire deer. That's a real animal. Look at that. How? Fuck and strange. What was in this coffee Jamie? Look at that thing. Look at the fucking teeth on that thing. It's probably something akin to their antlers. They use it to defend themselves. Okay, that's not real. That was not real. Because that's a mule deer. So that one, you just pick, that's, that's some Photoshop bullshit. What's interesting is apparently elk have these things called, people call them ovaries now. But what they are is at one point time, they're tusks. Like a bore. Like giant tusks that probably aided them and their fights. And they eventually shrank. And now they're just this weird sort of nubby thing. I actually have some here. I'll show it to you. Yeah. Yeah. After the podcast, I'll show them to you. But they, they're this weird thing that's like not quite a tooth. It's ivory that grows inside their head. And at one point in time, it was some kind of a weapon, just like their head is. I mean, the antlers are, you know, it's the largest, how do we describe this? What was the, the quickest growing thing in the animal world is the the antlers of an elk okay because look how fucking huge they are they fall off every year and they grow back every year and it's all just for fighting and they used to grow back tusks too or these to have tough the answer to the tusks were permanent but they used to just that's just for duking it out yeah

So if a greedy, dung beetle with giant horns just fucks everybody up, his genes can pass on. Maybe there's a certain round of cooperation that's needed in the dung beetle world. Yeah. You can't have an oppressor. Kind of a gang is kind of the dung beetle world. The patriarchy in the dung beetle world. Look at the size of the antler on that guy. Yeah. Progirls make fun of them. Probably the dung beetle world. Look at the size of the antler.

Exactly. Like what's he doing over there with his giant. It looks like elk antlers. Probably is a tiny little dick. You want, you want a guy that's just got a little like that guy. I probably probably hung like a roach.

Well, you're natural instincts. Yeah. There's a reason for them and you're most certainly correct. It's a weird feeling. The idea that you're going to trick this bear into thinking he's going there to eat and then you kill him. Yeah. Bear hunting is different than any other kind of hunting. In the first fall, there's a lot of emotional attachment to it because people love teddy bears, things on those lines. But bears are This idea that they're beautiful, they definitely are. They're definitely. They're also one of the more ruthless animals in the animal kingdom and they're all cannibals, all of them. And the males don't just go after the cubs, they eat them. And they go after them specifically to eat them. And then when the males get chased off, the female will eat their own cubs. And this is universal. They're also responsible for the death of at least 50% of undulate calves and fawns, whether it's moose cows, so they don't have any of these issues. So they also are really difficult to hunt and their populations thought by wildlife biologists are important to keep on a control. So in areas of extreme density, like forests, you will not kill them unless you bait. you will not. So if you want to have two things has to happen, you have to use dogs, which is what they used to use a lot. These two used to be California until the 1990s. They outlawed how and hunting. And then they outlawed baiting around the same time. What they essentially did in Northern California is they outlawed bear hunting. But they didn't. You can still hunt bears, but it's extremely difficult. Almost impossible with a bow or very, very unlikely, like your rate of success would be extremely low. If you want to control populations, if you like to eat mousse and deer or you want to have them keep healthy populations and you don't want the bear encroaching on these rural homes and these areas, you have to control their populations and there's very few other ways to control their populations other than baiting them.

Yeah, they're all they're all beautiful.

It should. It's a weird form of trickery and we don't think it's sporting, right? But the idea is that if you really want to control their populations, you have to accept that this is a necessary evil. So some that I grasp it.

Well, there's people get excited and they get happy that their success will be because hunting is difficult. And then if you take that at the context, you've taken that out of context and people get happy, especially when they're getting happy, they're getting happy around people that have no problem with hunting. One of the problems with respect is that it's assumed that you only have that respect if you don't have happiness that goes along with that.

Is a weird feeling of loss. So there's a lot of weird stuff that goes on.

It's hard. It's hard if you're not there experiencing it. It's hard if you're not involved in this hunt for many, many days and it gets very difficult and you don't know if it's ever going to happen. But the bear hunting in particular, especially over bait, is way more problematic psychologically. I think there's a really good argument and I support this argument that you must keep bare populations in control if you want people and all those animals to live in harmony. Because if you don't, there's nothing else that keeps their populations in control. Other than bigger bears, grizzly bears and grizzly bears and they get out of hand are way scarier. It's a real giant problem in terms of our our anthropomorphization of these animals, you know, attaching these human attributes and these human thoughts and thinking of them as our friends and the forest and then what they actually are to people that live out there.

Yeah, I understand what you're saying. And especially an unbalanced relation when you're hunting over bait for an animal that is not necessarily thought of in our culture as being an animal that you eat, which is bare. And a lot of times people think that you don't eat them, black bears in particular actually, they taste very good and people do eat them. When you deal with people like I have friends, my friend John and Jen Rivett who live in Alberta and they are hunting guides, it's a real necessity up there to hunt bears. Because there is nothing else that's keeping their populations in check. And if you ever go up there, you see an extraordinary amount of bears. Like you could see 1920 bears in a day. Wow. They're everywhere. And there's a high density of them. And they just decimate the deer population. They decimate the moose population. And there's some of them that learn that they can get into garbage cans, they can get into the trash. They're breaking up people's cars and destroy them. They've killed a few people, but it's pretty rare. Most of the time, they realize that people are dangerous, and they stay the fuck away. But it's not what I appreciate is spot and stalking traditional prey animals. That's what I like to do. I like to spot and stalk deer and elk. Because I feel like, first of all, they're the most delicious. They make, whether it makes sense or not, they make the most sense to me in terms of like a pre-animal, they're the ones that I, I covet the most. What I want to do is I want to go and get older, mature animals that are undulates. Whether it's a deer or an elk, an animal that's spread its genetics, that is already, it's, you know, seven, eight years old, nine years old, as animal that doesn't have much time left. If you get it now, you're probably getting it within a year of its death. whether it's by natural causes, wolves, cold starvation, you're you're doing it probably the most humane you're giving it probably the most humane death that's reasonably possible for this thing. Unless it falls off a cliff and even then it's the It might survive that for a little while. When you're shooting an animal with an arrow, it's dead in seconds. You hit it in the heart. I shot an elk this year. It literally walked four yards and tipped over. It just steps, steps, steps.

I think you should, I think you should be really careful. about anything that you do that's not that accurate. That's that's an issue. Yeah, that's a giant issue. A bozer extremely accurate. Right. I mean, there's guys that can shoot a paper plate at 120 yards every single time. They can shoot like a little plate like that. They'll bet their life. They can drop an arrow into that at 120 yards every single time. You can get good at that. You can get if you have good technique and reasonable control of your emotions and your anxiety. Sure. in the heart in the heat of the moment you don't ever shoot anything in a hundred twenty yards though you should get things thirty yards forty yards and the degree of success is very high with skilled hunters if you they're ethical and the shot decisions That primitive stuff is like, why? Why are you throwing spears? Like, what are you doing? You're trying to prove that you're better than people that use a bow and arrow. Like, this is not an accurate or effective thing. I mean, it kind of is, but you have to be like five yards, ten yards. Like, what do you got to be 15 yards max, even then?

There's a little bit of that. If you're shooting, oh, you're going after a bear. Yeah.

Yeah, if you get to spears, you're in a weird place. Like, like you say, oh, I only spear wild pigs. We're trying to get rid of them anyway. Okay. But that's, we're in a weird place. We're in a weird place. Because, uh, ethically, I think you have two choices. Three choices. Your three choices are rifle, which is number one, ethically. Realistically, because if you shoot something with a rifle, you can be really accurate. Like, out to 100 yards, 100% of the time. Like, unless it's crazy windy out or there's some weird conditions, altitude can affect ballistics. But not that much. Out to 100 yards, you're fucking deadly. If you have a really good control squeeze in the trigger, you're not jerking everything, you're not panicking. Then bow is second. You know, bow requires way more practice, way more fine tuning of your motor skills, but it's still possible. Then you have crossbow, which is even more effective than a bow, faster, more feet per second, faster feet per second so that it travels at a flat line because it's going quicker before it drops. They all drop at the same speed, right? But let's and arrows all drop at the same speed. They just don't get there at the same speed. Okay. So in the same amount of time, like if I'm shooting something at 100 yards with a bow, I am aiming with a sight that is calculating for the fact that the arrow is going to drop significantly in the time that it takes. If it's going 280 feet per second is like a normal speed for a good bow with a good heavy arrow that's 280 feet per second that goes 100 yards. Okay. A bullet is going to go 100 yards far quicker. But in the same amount of time, it takes that arrow to get to that target. The bullet is going to drop the same amount as the arrow. And that's what most people don't understand. So a crossbow is more ethical because it's more accurate. It's have fewer moving parts. You can actually sit it on a rest and just squeeze the trigger easier to manipulate. And the arrow is traveling faster, so it's called a bolt. Traveling faster, so it'll drop less. After that, check it squirrely. After that, it's like you throw in spears. Okay, you got, what do you got in Adeladdle? Okay. All right. Well, you can kill things with it and people have done it, but it gets to how accurate are you and what is what's your ethical brain? Right. A can ethical range for a really good hunter with a bow and arrow is probably 80 yards. Maybe it's a moose, 90 yards, something big. But with a spear, like, what do you got? You got 10 yards? So, you know, why? That's the question. What was that? Are you doing it for meat? Are you doing it because is this your mountain Everest? You want to kill a pig with a spear? And are you saying that a pig is not worth as much so you should be able to kill it with a spear? Because these are all weird decisions. They're weird decisions. They're weird decisions. Yeah. And people make those with bears. They make those decisions with black bears, like people that live where they consider them nuisances. They kill them. I mean, they used to be used to allow them to shoot, uh, used to allow to hunt, used to be allowed to hunt black bears with a spear in Alberta until a big scandal a couple years ago. where a guy filmed himself doing that. He shot a bear, he killed a bear rather with spear and was hooting and hollering and people got to hold the video and thought it was disgusting and protested it and people from under armor dropped his wife from their, you know, they had this sort of sponsorship deal with them. And it caused a rift in the hunting community. Some people think you should be able to hunt with a rock. I'll share what you hunt with. She'll hunt with anything. And other people are like, hmm, okay. But what are we doing? Are we just going out to get meat? Or are we putting on a macho performance of our ability?

That's not surprising. It's not surprising. I mean, I think if you were there, you'd probably be even more conflicted because you actually were there in the presence of the thing dying. Watching a bear die on a video is one thing, but being there alive when they die is a completely different thing. It's a very complicated thing because we have these deep set emotional connections to certain animals that my friend Steve Renella who's going to be actually on tomorrow. He calls them charismatic megafauna. Yeah. We have this different view of certain animals bears in particular. But if you use the animal respectfully, respectfully and you kill it ethically and you do I don't have any problem with hunting bears and in fact I think it's actually and that's it it really is a necessary task it's something that even if you don't like to hunt bears if you're living in a place like Alberta you probably should hunt bears because you should do your part there's a lot of them out there and you know one of the things that becomes an interesting relationship is a relationship between the moves hunters and the deer hunters and the bear hunters that they have kind of if those smart ones have come to an understanding that even if I don't hunt bear, I need those people out there doing it. But it's, how do you do it and why are you doing it? I think you, I've seen animals die very quickly with a bone arrow. They die very quickly. I've never seen animal die with a spear. I don't think it's necessary. But I don't want to be the person that tells you you can't do it. If you have an ethical range of five yards and you only hunt bear with a spear at five yards and you kill it immediately, you hit it and kill it, you're right, then you're right.

And also I would kind of be a hypocrite because even though I can ethically kill something at 40 yards or just figure out what the number is depending on the size of the animal. Um, even though I can do that, I could do it way easier with a rifle. So why am I using a bow and arrow? Why do I want to make it more difficult? Why am I making it more challenging? Why am I requiring myself to practice?

It's a very important question to ask because if I was just doing it just for the meat, I would probably use your rifle.

Yeah. Well, again, we're talking about bears. You know, it's not just bears. Are there animals as well?

Well, a lot of people are taking issue. My good friend Ben O'Brien, who's a brilliant writer, who's actually also a hunter, is advocating that people stop taking what he calls grip and grins. What a grip and grin is like, say, if you shot a beautiful deer, you're holding the deer up by the antlers and you're smiling. And he's advocating that those photos are problematic because people who don't hunt, look at it like you're some bloodthirsty asshole that's super happy that something died. And that's not even though that's not how the people feel when they're taking those photos. What there are is happy that something which is very difficult, which, you know, especially if you're using a bow, most people go home empty-handed. It requires too much fitness, physical fitness, because you're going up and down the mountains. It requires too much accuracy and training and technique and archery. Most people fuck it up. And then there's dealing with anxiety. Most people fuck it up. After it's all over, there's this great feeling of elation, right? You did it. I can't believe it came together. Wow, because it was probably not going to come together and people get happy. Now, these are people again that already accept hunting. Now, if you take someone who is an animal rights activist or someone who deeply appreciates animals, and then you show them that photo, they have a completely different association with what that photo means. With that photo means, is here's an asshole who's a trophy hunter.

You're right. Yeah, when they kill a monkey, they get pretty happy.

Yeah, terrifying little fuckers.

We haven't even touched that. I think it's the same way as bow hunting versus spears and rifles. It's all this world's messy. You know, all these things are messy.

The only hope that I have is through reasonable dialogue becoming an accepted and appreciated thing, a celebrated thing, and that this is possible that people can realize that there's some stupidity to this team mentality that we have. Right. His right versus left, which is almost all a good percentage of it, is these assumed identities. Right. These pre-determined patterns that get adopted in order to, as we first started talking about this, in order to establish yourself as someone who's in a group. Right. You get accepted by this group. And you see it left and right. I mean, I don't want to name any names, but there's a bunch of people to do it blatantly. You see them. And I've even seen them switch teams. And you see them switch teams. And I don't buy their rationalizations when it comes to ideology. What I think is what they're doing is they're switching teams because they realize there's an in on this team. And they could just say, this is the problem with the team I used to be on, those fucking losers, and they're really Benedict Arnold, right? And they probably have as much of an affinity to the ideas of one side as they do the other side, they just go all in on one side to get acceptance from the group. You just know way people change their opinion that much over two years. It's like they just decide this group makes more sense now and I've been attacked by people on the left. So I'm going to go over the right or vice versa. And usually what it is is mean even when they say they've been attacked like oh you fucking baby there's a 300 million people just in this country alone. If you put something out there publicly and a thousand people attack you, don't act like you're being persecuted, okay? You have an idea, you've launched that idea out into the zeitgeist and people took a big shit on it. You know, whether it's people on the right or people on the left, you got to be able to argue your point one way or the other, and not just immediately jump ship on someone who shares ideas with you, decides that your ideas sucks, and maybe they're wrong, and maybe you're right. But you got to argue that through, but this idea of these partisan patterns that people just seem to automatically fall into. They're so detrimental to dialogue. They're so detrimental to us under really understanding each other and really having some sort of a sense of community, right? This is a giant community of 300 million people. That's what it's supposed to be. and this idea that it's this group is trying to fuck it up and they're trying to turn us all Muslims and this one wants everybody to be gay and this one wants everybody to fucking have free food in this and this is nonsense this is nonsense we need better understanding and you know the word better education gets tossed around a lot but it also means better social understanding right But it's social education. Like an appreciation of who we are and why we think the way we think. And calling out weasels on both sides of the pattern, like calling out weasels on the right that are pandering that are just trying to get up, you know, the repeating a lot of these like accepted beliefs because they know that they can hit this frequency and a lot of people sing along. or the same thing that a people are doing on the left. They're doing it on both sides. I think most reasonable people have a collection of ideas that they share from both the right and the left. And most reasonable people are reasonably compassionate. And I think that's one of the things we're missing. Some reasonable sense of not just ethics, but an appreciation for each other for all of us as a group. And this, that, I think, if we can celebrate reasonable conversations and celebrate an understanding of other people's perspectives, like be able to just look at how you're looking at things that have empathy. Okay, let me see what you're coming from with this. Okay, let me put myself in your shoes. Okay, instead of just immediately like fuck you, you cock and fuck you, you this and instead of thinking about it that way, if we just just try to just everybody exercise a little bit more, so we're a little bit more calm. Right. And come at this from a rational place and try to like realize like, let's do try to exclusion.

Well, I would never be so presumptuous to think that I have any idea how this ends. I have proposed various scenarios to myself and I don't like any of them. I don't like where it's going because I would have worried about and this is also again hypocritical that because I think it probably should burn down and be rebuilt from the ruins. We're not gonna get such a clean thing. It's not gonna be clean. I know. No, this isn't very clean either, though. Honestly, that guy won, it's not clean. I mean, he loves Putin. You know, this is a clean, you know, the whole thing is weird. The bankers having the amount of influence they have, the fact that there's two lobbyists, what's the number, like, two lobbyists to every member of Congress or two lobbyists to every senator, From the pharmaceutical industry, by the way, the number of people that have influenced over the way our laws are shaped, it's so fucking bananas right now, right? So off the rails. Is that what it is? 12?

No, I think from the pharmaceutical industry, they were saying, not just, I think it's two for every member of Congress in the pharmaceutical industry. Yeah, the question that you started out with, like, D platforming people. I think we're impatient and I think we really want to make sure that this vetting of ideas happens quickly because we see the answer. We see the solution. We see that this is incorrect and we see these people that think the world is flat or idiots and we think that these people that this think this and think that we think they're all wrong and so we want to stop them from talking. But that doesn't work. It just works for now. It oftentimes feeds those ideas. And it also, you have to question, like, why are you so sure? Why are you so sure that you are correct? That you don't just want your side to be heard exclusively. You want to silence these other people's ability to participate in this argument, even if they're totally wrong. I think that's dangerous because I think that the way to fight off ideas that aren't good is to introduce ideas that are good and you're gonna have a bunch of people that agree with the ideas that are bad but I think that that's a part of this whole figuring things out like you need to have bad ideas floating around there to appreciate good ideas if all the ideas are good like what do we do get it out against right It's not bad to have these bad ideas broadcast. It's bad to not have someone say, hey, these are bad ideas. Okay, but we need to see the pitfalls of racism. We need to see the pitfalls of crime. We need to see the pitfalls of corruption. We need to see it in action. I think it's like stock markets windling. I think in a lot of ways it's important. We need to understand that this is a pattern that people fall into continually over and over again. When they have control over the money, when they have control over them, move the numbers, what do I do this? How about if I tell you that this is going to go down and then you invest some money and I put some money in your back? and we work together. What's makes money? Because what people do, right? They just fucking do it over and over and over again. Should you punish him? Yes, absolutely. But I think it's kind of important to see some fucked up behavior, just because we're not done. We're still in some sort of emotional and psychological and even physical evolution. We're in the middle of this thing. And I think that bad ideas facilitate comprehension. Like these really shitty ideas that a lot of people have, what they do is they facilitate a comprehension of why we think dumb shit. And sometimes you don't know why people think dumb shit until you see someone over and over again that thinks dumb shit. And you get to see that whether it's Alex Jones or whether it's who it's filling the blank. Okay. What guy do you want? Deep black.

Okay. Well, you're going deep. You're just spray paint. I'm fucking big A on Tucker Carlson's driveway.

I think you need to start a podcast. Just keep going on about the hop thing until people figured it out. No, not just about the hop thing.

I don't do any. Yeah. Any more, but I used to. I mean, that's how I became famous in the first place. Right. You know, but yeah, I don't do it anymore, but it's also because there's nothing fun out there like this. Like there's no place for this.

I think his effect on the internet is bigger than the book. I think the YouTube videos and the debates that he has, the one that I was telling you, the recent one interview with GQ, some interesting. It's really good. The woman's very smart, but she gets trounced. And it's because he's been in a trenches with this stuff for a long time. I mean, he's fighting a very strange fight of dialogue and of interpretation, of discussion. the freedom of intellectual sovereignty. You know, there's a lot of people that want you to think a very certain way and use certain words and say certain things. And it doesn't matter whether or not you are in fact racist or sexist or homophobic or whatever. There's a weird battle of control going on that it's a heart of it as much as it is a battle of inclusion and diversity and strengthening our overall progressive mindset. There's a little bit of that, too. But there's also an undeniable game. And people want to win. There's scores that are being scored. There's points on the board that throwing in new agents. They have teams going at it. And whenever Jordan goes on one of these conversations, these video interviews, and there's a feminist and Jordan Peterson, like, there's a fucking game going on. We're watching a soccer match. We're watching a wrestling match. This is due to their playing intellectual due to. And Jordan's really good at tapping people. He's really good at it. And they get in piss. They keep sending in new chicks. they said in that Kathy Newman lady he's like so what you're saying is that didn't work either she's got devastated she got rocked and this is what's happening over and over and over again because whether you appreciate what he's saying or not he has some facts that are undeniable he has some positions that are based on a rich understanding of history and of Marxism and of communism and of a lot of the problems with people with compelled thoughts. If you're compelling people to behave a certain way, compelling people to talk a certain way, and we're not talking about compelling people to not commit crimes or violence, we're talking about weird things, like compelled pronouns.

How long does that go on? It goes on for as long as it takes and this is similar to I think that what's happening intellectually and this is one of the reasons why I don't think you should stop people from expressing these bad ideas. It's one thing for stopping people to say hey, we need to kill black people stopping people said we need to kill white people. We need to kill fill in the black whatever the group is. Yeah, that's that's different you're you're you're complete clearly stepping outside of the realm of civilization and into war and violence and we could all collectively decide and we should all collectively decide we should have ethics together like whether it's right or left or in the middle we should all decide hey you can't do that because what you're doing is you're you're calling for violence against someone who's not committing any violence can I pause you right there I think there's a really interesting point okay

Well, the deep platforming option, the real issue is there's only a few different avenues for these people to express themselves publicly, right? And the argument that's really strange is should these be regulated like utility, or should they be thought of as private businesses get to decide what's on their channel essentially? Like it's almost like a private NBC that everyone can broadcast on.

I think these ideas, what I was discussing, that like there's, there's a reason why good ideas and bad ideas should go to war. There's the same reason why even though I kind of knew that most Kung Fu was bullshit before the UFC, I want those guys to get in there and try. Oh, you got some death touch. Hey, come on in. I want to introduce you to a guy. You know, this is his name came Velasquez. And you're going to try your death touch. And he's just going to wrestle you to the ground and beat your fucking brains in, okay? Right. But that's not going to happen because you know death touch. Good luck. And you let him do it out. And that is, that's what the idea is. But it is a little bit. No, no, no. But when you de-platform people, that's when it's not happening.

Well, he's first of all, he became famous from this, right? This is, the battle was how he emerged. He emerged from this battle over the use of compelled pronouns for various genders, like the 20-year-old Brett 78 different genders. Similar, but not. Okay. Okay. The difference is Brett's position He comes from a different place. The way they were going at him was so much more unreasonable. They were saying right away that what he has to do is leave work because he's white. They were basically saying a racist thing and everyone universally acknowledges his racist except for these super lefties. who thought that it made sense, because in their mind, every white person is somehow another guilty of at least, at the very least, using your privilege to advance the world to the negative impact of people of color and people of other ethnicities. So they decided that they are going to have a day of exclusion, and instead of this day of absence having black people and people of color stay home. They were going to kick white people out. So it became an aggressive act instead of an act of appreciation. It became an act of punishment or an act of exclusion. And by people that are clearly out of their fucking mind, that was also part of the problem. There are arguments or incoherent. You would see that fucking stupid president of the university standing in front of those kids and they told them to put his hands down because he was threatening. You're you're scaring us. You're making violent gestures with your hands. So he puts his hands down and they start laughing. Okay, this is nonsense now. You're in little kids, you get little kids running, you're the flies on a grand scale in a state university. And it's all, I mean, this is a public university, right? Yeah. I mean, they get funding, right? This is all chaos. Nobody agrees. They got baseball bats. They're looking for him if he's coming back to the school. The kids form these vigilante groups with weapons over what? Like, who's threatening you?

That's such a preposterous position. The idea that racism is exclusive to any group. Well, but the re definition, the re definition, the re definition can suck a fat dick. It's a stupid redevelopment. Well, that's true. This idea that the only way you can be racist is if you have power over that other group. That's nonsense. Every human beings act as individuals and they always have power over each other. You have power to intimidate. You have power to isolate. You have power if you just move.

No, no, no, you can't do that because they don't make sense. You can't say, oh, yeah, they make sense. Well, then how do I know when you're serious?

But isn't that a reductionist view of what Victoria Secrets is? Isn't it possible that a woman can feel empowered and sexy if she's wearing lingerie? It's not just to the exploiting of the male gaze that it just, that she appreciates looking attractive. Wonderful.

Is it a terrible male exploitation issue? Like, what if a guy likes, what if women decide universally? They like guys who are leopard skin underwear and guys start wearing leopard skin, tidy whitey underwear. Well, this is sexual selection. But yes, but that's the difference between that and women wearing lingerie. If with women wear lingerie and they do it because they like to be interesting and they like to be more attractive.

If a woman's health should take that all on. Why does it have to be exploitation though?

So you think letting them come up with as many preposterous things as possible, and then once it gets to a position where the ideas contradict each other, expose that.

There even, the person who wears that crazy makeup should be able to wear whatever they want. It's only wrong with it. You should be able to dress like Paul Stanley from Kiss if you think.

Do you think that? Wait a minute. Do you really think that Victoria Secret's runway show is for the heterosexual male?

Ah, what, guys? Have you ever watched the Victoria Secrets for the show?

I mean, there's something between a fantasy of a Victoria Secrets. A senior executive recently told Vogue that trans models don't belong in the fantasy of Victoria Secrets fashion show. Well, you know, that's that's on him. You know, he wants to be the but just because he says it doesn't mean it's true. I get if if you looked at the graph of male to female viewers of a victorious secrets. I have no idea. It would be like a few prepubes and boys and the vast majority of women and maybe some gay guys. But that's it. Is that right? It's got to be who the fuck is sitting around? It's on an hour. What are you doing? Oh, we're getting some popcorn ready for the Victoria Secrets Fashion Show. Doug's coming over in Mike. We're going to drool the TV. That fuck outta here is porn and then there's everything else. Everything else is for chicks. Okay. Runway shit. I don't know. A single guy out there watching Runway shit. It's like, remember when Playboy had Playgirl? That was for gay dudes. That's not for chicks. They don't want to see that. And we don't want to see runways. We're not here for runways. We get bored easy. A bunch of chicks walking around the run to wear.

Sure, sure. That's a good way of looking at it. I don't think the male gaze is absent. I just don't buy his interpretation of that it's a fantasy for men that's ruined with trans men or trans women.

It's like if you don't want transgender people to be in there, you just have to say you can't say it ruins the fantasy. You just say we only like hiring people that have vaginas. I don't know. Do whatever you want. Like you could like there's certain jobs if you go to Chippendales like our trans women showing up a trans men. Are they at Chippendales? where they're just through down there because they don't have a dick and but they're all jacked and they look like a man is this what women want to see and are they transphobic if they don't want to see that right women go to it you know one of those all male review shows and it's all trans men but they're heterosexual and they're not really into trans men are they all

I completely see your point. However, you can't give ground. You can't give grounded nonsense because that ground was never getting back. You're never getting it back. Have you allowed them to establish certain ridiculous principles rules that are contradictory to each other? They'll come up with a reason why they make sense.

Well, you're basically doing then what Jordan does and every single one of these debates. You're letting people lay out their idea and then you shoot them down and you decide what's what's logical and what's illogical. I think that's that's the UFC of ideas. Right. And this is why it's important to let these shitty ideas into the match.

Because it sounds good. People like the idea that you don't have to learn much, you can just go in there with a death touch and fuck people up. They don't want to think that, oh, you have to practice for 10,000 hours. You have to sprawl and work on your leg kicks and work on your body.

Well, debating these, I think, honestly, and I'm not trying to blow Jordan's horn any more than I only have, but I think what he does is very important because he is one of the few that engages in these people in these very public forums, in these long-form debates where they go to war with ideas, and these are way better to keep their conversations. Because he's fucking good at.

Because I'm friendly. I'm not as, it's like, I'm not as combativist he is and I'm also not as smart as he is and I'm also not as I'm not I don't have your credential. I don't have the credentials that he has like when he's the University of Toronto Professor PhD when he's going to war with these people they're they're throwing out valiant warriors to die at his sword.

Oh, well, is Dawkins now religious?

Because I panic because I know you had a stroke. Oh, okay. You know what guys, you know what I'm saying? Well, I thought your brother was an atheist as well. Yeah.

If you looked at it objectively, not looked at it in terms of how you feel about cult-like behavior and the people's susceptibility to influence. If you just looked at it objectively, you were from another dimension and you'd go, well, clearly, this is a part of being a successful person.

You know the real problem that I've always had with Dawkins and his take on religion is not that he's wrong or very right. It's his anger that he has when he's talking to people that believe. Yeah, he sets up the kind of heavy conflict that, you know, the way people interact with each other is very, the reactions are very dependent upon the attitude that a person has when they go into this interaction. You know, two people meet on the street, one person One person meets that person, says the same words, and they wind up hugging. Another person meets that person and has a fist fight. What is the difference? Well, there's a lot of it is the way you approach people. The lot of it is the way you accept people's ideas, the way you communicate with them, the way you allow them to fully express themselves with our judgment, and he doesn't buy anything. He feels like there's a war going on, and he's got a shut down religion as quickly as possible.

Well, don't you think that he's just very confident in his ideas? He's very confident in his intellectual capabilities. He's been doing these type of debates and shutting down these secular people that are, I mean, from various religions, right? I mean, he's had these debates with people from Judaism, from Christianity. He's been as part of his career, right? Yeah, I mean, and even with the fuck's his name, the Indian fellow who everybody makes fun of. What the fuck's his name? Don't ask to Susan. No, the other guy. The one the the quantum guy that's always using direct to that guy. Yeah. That guy. That guy is constantly using inappropriate quantum words. Right. Throw his quantum into fucking vegetable soup and tries to make it to make sense. He he's used a lot of word salad. Right. You know. And I mean, I've seen him debate him too.

Um, I don't think they, I don't think they necessarily do actually believe that they're wrong. I do think that some of these people that are like super progressive and very very committed to some of these maybe illogical positions on some of these ideas are afraid of conflict though. And I think that's one of the reasons why they shy towards progressiveism towards socialism. I don't think they let conflict. No, no, no, they like to get together and scream at people.

This is what they like to get together in large groups. Okay. And say, we know how you sleep. You fucking racist. You fucking piece of shit. But one on one, they're cowards. Okay. Like this is this is the type of person that would think it's a good idea to to show up and bang on someone's door and scare them in their home. That type of person is not the type of person that would that looks forward to on an even battlefield engaging someone one on one and just just open communication. That's not what they're doing. What they're doing is trying to silence people, scare people, intimidate people, their bullies, intellectual bullies. People are bullies are almost always insecure. They're almost always scared. So this is why there's been very few people that are jumping forward to try to go to intellectual war.

You're dealing with two very different types of human beings. A racial man, I was one thing, Linda Sarsore is a very, very seriously religious person who's got some very deep beliefs as far as Islam, she wears the hijab, she's been totally different things.

Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure, I'm sure they'd be, I'm sorry they're scared of having discussions with people, but I don't see them in open. They don't have to be very, they don't have to be very measured because they could lose their job. It's not that simple. They make a tremendous amount of money. If they came and said anything that could be misconstrued or misinterpreted even, not even actually being something that's actually transphobic or actually homophobic or actually xenophobic. If they said anything that could be taken out of context and put in a small clip and then sent down and it goes viral, they're done. Look at Megan Kelly. Megan Kelly had a question about why can't you wear makeup to look like Diana Ross? Why can't you? Well, there's some good reasons why you can't. There's some good racial history behind Blackface. However, why is it that she can't even ask a question without losing her job? Like, that's it. Pull the plug. We have to make a fucking statement. We have more violence.

Well, first of all, someone like Megan Kelly can only exist in a protected contest. Well, all these people in protected contest.

Well, I'm sure he's very smart guy. I'm sure he's very smart guy.

I'm sure he's very smart guy. I'm sure he's very smart guy. I'm sure he's very smart guy. I'm sure he's very smart guy. I'm sure he's very smart guy.

I'm sure he's Well, how come he's not speaking out against all those kids getting fucked? Well, that's if you're a Catholic. Yeah. Like, I was raised Catholic. I mean, I'm not saying that he is, I'm not saying that the people he knows are, but this is a giant problem with that organization.

So I want to bring it back. Okay.

Or someone can't say it's an organization of kid fuckers. That's right. Yeah. This is not just more restricted world that that's the reason why that has been able to survive.

It would have some value of someone to attack you in a very specific way.

I don't necessarily think that's the case. I think they could do it in other ways. I think all of them are operating under this rule system because this rule system is how they get paid. But I think Seth Myers is a very smart guy. I know Jimmy Kimmel. He's a very smart guy. They could do whatever they want. He could do a podcast. He could do anything. He could operate into any genre, I believe. And I think I would imagine the same with Colbert. I mean, I think Jimmy Fallon, same thing. But when they're forced into that box, and this is $100 million a year box, it feels good in that box. This is fucking velvet walls and you get to drive a fat Mercedes and live in Beverly Hills. You decide to stay in that box. Maybe their mind is in that box. Maybe they are on a regular basis. Maybe there's not any restriction for them at all because this is how they operate all the time.

Well, Bill doesn't have any time. Well, this is part of the problem. They have a very restricted format. He was doing a conversation with Steve Bannon and he was on Sam Harris's podcast and he was talking about it. He said that one of the problems was he got to this point where he was like, I wanted to ask him more stuff, but I ran out of time. Right. And I heard that I was like, what the fuck kind of ancient system are you operating there that you run out of time?

Well, he definitely did run out of time.

Oh, they're fine together.

Well, here's the thing. He went on Sam's podcast, and I enjoyed him more than I enjoyed him on his show. I know.

How do you look? I didn't say it.

Well, he must really feel that. He must really feel like he is. Look, look, that is what you have to do if you want to survive on Fox News. And again, it's a velvet coffin. You're in there. It's beautiful. Yes. You're getting paid shit loads of money, but you don't necessarily have the freedom to express. First of all, you don't have long-form freedom. Right. And you don't have to freedom to completely express yourself across the border. Like, you can't look at the left side deas and say, you know what I really like? The idea of universal healthcare. I really like the idea of universal basic income. I really like the idea of paying for people school.

And my guess is, I'm not saying that. Okay. I'm always saying that would bill more. I think Tucker Carlson probably can't do that. I think of Tucker Carlson left.

Yes.

I think he could, I don't think he would though. I think he out of all of them and I think he's brilliant. Don't get me wrong. And when I said he's from an organization of kid fuckers, it's not him. I mean, but he's a part of the Catholic thing. I mean, it's a big thing in terms of first of all the actual reality of the organization and what they've done to protect people that have molested children, it's unprecedented. It's also something that I was raised in. I mean, I was Catholic. I went to Catholic school. I don't think that he wants to do that sort of wild country open type internet show. I think he enjoys wearing a tie and doing a straight-up talk show like the Johnny Carson show or the Jay Leno show and I think he's very, very good at it. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think a lot of people like that one preference. And I understand that. But I think that's him. I might be wrong. I'm just assuming.

I think there's a drug in there. I think there's a drug in there. I think there's a drug in there. I think there's a drug in there. I think there's a drug in there.

I think there's a drug in there. I think there's a drug in there. I think there's a drug in there.

I think you're probably right. I think if you had two people having these conversations in long form instead of those CNN three windows were just battling it out for six minutes and then, you know, everybody's yelling over everybody. That is the single worst way to argue ideas.

There's not, well, Jordan Pearson is kind of doing his own great challenge.

Yes, well, just which is I think a piece of the voice crazy of the intellectual voice crazy He's out there tapping wrestlers. Um, yeah, I mean I think Not legitimately, you know, he's worked his way past the Kung Fu people and he's now on to like Olympic wrestlers. Like they're throwing at him. This latest woman was very good. Yeah. She's much better than that Kathy Newman lady. She didn't make any of these ridiculous straw man arguments. She came out of him with her positions in her points. It was interesting. I think what you're saying is true for everybody except Bill Mar. I think Bill Mar would hold his positions in podcast form and I think he would just have more time to expand on them and I based this on him being on Sam Harris's show and I found it to be very good. It was the 10th anniversary of religious and he was excellent on there. I think he could do it. But I think he's also, he can say fuck you, he got in trouble for dropping an end bomb on his show in a joking form. I mean, he's a different cat. The whole thing is very different with him. It's on HBO.

That's tough. Because in this environment, again, that's where it makes his living. He butters his bread over at HBO. And if you wanted to have a long form conversation with that guy, even on a podcast, and he didn't have an HBO show. That's one thing. But if you do have an HBO show, you have to have a totally different attitude. Because one wrong, you're walking a guy with that tight rope.

because he's he's asked if we we've talked we being bill and I actually went back and forth on an email about something yeah I dropped the ball but now he would do anybody's podcast I don't think that's the case he could do his own podcasts as well I agree that he would be the one most likely to be able to do both he could do it yeah he could do it I think all of them could do it. I think Seth Meyers could do it too. I think Jimmy Kimmel could probably do it as good or better than any of them. Jimmy absolutely could do it. I mean, the only thing that's holding him back, he's a man of his ideas. He's not going to, he's probably the least likely to alter or manipulate his ideas of anybody that's ever done one of those late night talk show hosts. He's just operating inside a format where you don't swear, and you have a certain amount of time, and you try to be funny, and you say insightful stuff. But he's a very ethical guy, and he's also a very, very smart guy, and he's also very rich. He's got a shit little fuck you money. And I think Jimmy Kimmel could do it easily. I think a lot of people could do it easily, and I think they're gonna have to. I think some point along the line, they're gonna realize that the restrictions that they're operating under, unless they really enjoy that format, I don't think those formats are going to be there that long. I think those formats are a lot like sitcoms. They're slowly starting to vanish. For every one rosan show that comes up, which is kind of nostalgic, and that runs into its own disaster. How many new sitcoms are there that everybody's aware of? Shit, it used to be. Every time there was a new sitcom, whether it was friends or fill in the blank, whatever the show sign fell, there was everybody was talking about these new sitcoms. Nobody fucking talks about sitcoms anymore.

Oh, yeah, that's fake. Those are fake followers. That's what that is.

and by getting rid of follower counts. Right. And removing likes. Can you imagine thinking that you're going to improve the level of conversation by getting rid of a heart that you can switch on?

It's literally a heart. But it's feedbed. But you're clicking on a heart. It's on Instagram and on Twitter. It's a heart. It's a like, page a little heart. I love you. I'm going to get rid of love. Jack. Come on, Jack. I'm going to get rid of love.

What's terrifying about that?

Listen, you can't. We're talking about ideas here. You can't.

I think we got to end this, though. Okay. We've done four hours and ten minutes, right? Are you kidding me?

We've been saying for a while, we are rethinking everything about the service to ensure we are incentivizing healthy conversation that includes the like button. We are in the early stages of the work and have no plans to share right now. And this is in response to Telegraph, the Telegraph saying, Twitter to remove the like tool and the bid to improve the quality of debate.

Well, I mean, what is the quality of debate and by whose definition? I mean, you're definitely not going to change the way people interact with each other. You're just not. People interact with each other because they're anonymous. They have the incentive to talk shit. It's fun.

Are you worried about getting shut off? I'm always worried but you don't say anything at flammatory like what you you're very logical and reasonable guy So you think it's really gotten to that point?

You're progressive. Yeah. So why would they shut you off?

Interesting. There's a war of foot. You love that kind of stuff. You love that cloaking dagger type shit. Don't you?

You said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, you said internet, This is an effortless.

Um, flew by. It was awesome.

It really is five ten.

I linked you on the Instagram.

Yeah, and if you can't find his Instagram, I linked it on my Instagram. Alright.

Thank you, my friend. Lots of fun. Alright, bye, you fucks.